Apech

On getting tot he 10th degree you could proclaim "I am the humblest!" and all would bow before you.

pass me the cat, please my wig has just fallen off pussy covers head

@TI - I'm afraid that seems to confirm what Alwayson is saying ... he seems to me to have bolted dzogchen on as an end point whereas the whole point of not just Dzogchen but also Mahamudra and Lamdre teachings is basis, path and fruit. In any case if you want to be clear about Dzogchen its the Dzogchen master you should refer to. I think this whole thread is out of hand and lacking in the basic kindness for which Buddhism is revered. I realise that the way Alwayson expresses himself upsets a lot of people BUT you have to remember that it is his right to express himself how he chooses ... why it causes everyone else to get angry and start to belittle him I don't know ... but it reflects poorly on those who allow this reaction to dominate. There is absolutely no reason why Alwayson should accept what anyone says about what Dzogchen is or isn't apart from those fully qualified to teach it if he doesn't want to. That's got to be the same for all of us surely.

Sorry but wires don't break at the atomic level its the crystalline structure that shears.

I wonder if dinosaurs used to sit around discussing whether the earth would one day be inhabited by mammals without proper fur who walk on their hind legs? I can imagine the snorts of derision.

Paternalism Who begot who and with whom Protoplasmic lore.

I haven't seen a quote fromt he government explaining this ... the term 'esoteric material' could mean just about anything.

You beat me to it! Can I suggest that to be humble is to be earthed/grounded?

Welcome back Starjumper ... I remember you well.

I am not worthy to answer.

Article in Guardian today: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2013/aug/08/porn-filters-evidence-for-against

Yes indeed, it is of course a self evident truth that if the natural state is the natural state then it must be there for everyone and not just Buddhists. Also true that spontaneous awakening occurs. No doubt. However being human those who have these experiences inevitably conceptualise them in culturally familiar terms ... so the words used about the natural state will be different ... and then comes all the debate and argument. However if the subject is Dzogchen then this is a specific teaching in Bon and Buddhism which is the base, path and fruit. It is a non-dualist path leading to complete realisation. It can be compared to Mahamudra and Lamdre teachings in the way that the teachings are expressed (although the process and terminology are different). So it is not completely without peers. I don't think its a good idea for us to sink into the 'all paths are the same' kind of approach. They are not. Buddhism is not Taoism is not Christianity ... and so on. You could compare the Tao to the dharmakaya I suppose ... and even to the Holy Spirit perhaps with a bit of mental stretching ... but I don't see where that gets you. What we should uphold, I feel, and this is not always done, is respect for other paths. We don't need to turn them into one vague mush to do this. Just as we respect other people who are different to ourselves we can respect other paths and teachings.

Well you may consider it bullshit but I was taught Buddhism is this same way ... you need a transmission to study a text. This idea may be alien to you but within Tibetan Buddhism this is how it works. This is not an extremist view and I don't see why Alwayson cannot express it.

Sure its a public forum and I was defending the right of Alwayson to express himself as long as he stays within the house rules. I am not a student of Dzogchen but I understand the text under discussion is a Dzohchen text for which a transmission is required. There is nothing wrong with Alwayson stating this.

To be fair to Alwayson I think his main objection was to people talking about Dzogchen who are not Dzogchen practitioners and do not have the transmission or the right instructions to understand the detail involved. You mention several paths there ... and if you spoke to many people who follow those paths they would not agree with your definition of the end goal "the I Am consciousness" - as you put it. In fact I don't recognise that from Castaneda or mystical Christianity either.

Duh! yes!

Western or Chinese this thread drags on.

That is very wise ... for in many places there be dragons.

There is no need for you to hide or suppress your secret knowledge of the dinosaurs since you are among friends here. These savage seeming beasts, no matter how monstrous and un-natural they may appear, are indeed children of nature just as man is and also in their own way, just as noble. That they may roar and tear flesh from the bones of their weaker cousins may seem primitive, atavistic and out side the greater harmony which Heaven ordains. But rest assured that even these cold bloodied giants of the lizard world are also part of that Great Whole in which we all live and have our being. Keep your hidden knowledge if you wish but know that with us, your mammalian brothers, you have the benefit of all the kindest regard and support you may wish for. Adieu.

The fact that you possess an anti-dinosaur suit as indicated in your post is most telling. Why would you have such a thing if you did not perceive a risk ... and why would we not then be drawn to the conclusion that after all dinosaurs are not extinct and in fact walk the earth (in which ever part of the globe you live). And that you sir, are in daily peril.

Would you like fries with your McSTEGOSAURUS?

I read the Guardian on-line ... it is hopelessly confused about issues like this ... one minute publishing wikileaks and snowden and the next post-modern feminist critique of ... well anything ... the state of the press is a good indication of how personal freedom and intellectual freedom have been discarded in recent years.

Maybe we should have all gone to Eton (lol). I think the best response is to have a universal opt in campaign ... not on the basis of wanting to access porn but just to make the point that we don't want Govt. control. That way any attempt to use the database of opt-in people will become meaningless.

My conclusion is having lived a while outside of Britain is that it is a prudish country which can't deal sensibly with anything related to sex. I'm not defending rape porn and so on ... who could ... but the culture in England at least is so debased now into superficial nonsense and commerciality that these ideas on social policy are so clearly a) based on nanny state b ) based on received values c ) part of the general trend of paranoid social control. David Cameron has an eye to the next election where he needs to hold the core conservative vote which consists of middle class middle aged women who think Margaret Thatcher was god. Yuk.

Have you got a link to the actual policy from the Brit Govt. saying this?