Apech

How many Illuminati does it take to illumine a light a bulb?

Just a note for future discussions: phenomenon is singular ... so 'phenomenon does' phenomena is plural ...so 'phenomena do'. ... it means that which appears or is seen ... so saying something is a phenomenon just means it appears ... you can see it ... enquiry into its nature is to say is it real, or does it have any real essence in and of itself ... to which the Buddhist answer is it has not ... and is thus 'empty of self'. The appearance of phenomena is entirely dependent on conditions for them to appear to arise. So they do not exist in any sense independently. This analytic presentation of emptiness is one thing of course while the realisation of emptiness is another. The intellectual or philosophical view of emptiness is merely a support for a profound inner realisation. Just thought I'd chip in to this interesting debate.

Good links ... thanks. I am reminded of the ancient egyptian Naw serpent ... a primeval deity. Also reverse the Na- ... to An- and you get Anata-sesha the seven headed serpent of Vishnu. http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/etgloss/am-ani.htm

I feel I should mention Nagarjuna ... Naga +Arjuna ... in the context of Nagas and Nagual etc.

If only he put that energy into developing a decent operating system (only joking).

I think we should strive to think well of each other. That would be a good starting point. If there are Bodhisattvas posting on here I welcome that. I am reminded by discussion with another member who shall remain nameless (but for the purposes of discussion I shall call Cat) ... that there is a big difference between people with Bodhisattva aspirations and who take or recite as part of practice the Bodhisattva vow and an actual Bodhisattva ... that is a person who has attained to at least the first Bhumi or beyond. The first Bhumi or stage is defined as : So the realisation of Shunyata or voidity or emptiness ... as a permanent realisation and not just a flash experience marks out a Bodhisattva from the rest of us. Vmarco is exactly right in this respect as far as I can see. It is also essential Bhuddist teaching to distinguish absolute Bodhicitta from relative Bodhicitta ... the first being wisdom of emptiness and the second being compassion. A being who has realised emptiness is naturally compassionate ... but this does not mean sentimentality or feeling even ... it means he/she sees through appearances to understand how the suffering of others needlessly arises and through this works to help liberate those beings from their state of ignorance and grasping.

I've lost my marbles They rolled under the settee Well, sofa so good.

You recognise the presence of fire by means of smoke ... and water by the birds congregating on it ... in other words you look for the signs in their behaviour. Like gentleness and kindness ... lacking any deceit ... and so on. Its from the Jewel Ornament of Liberation by Gampopa ... the classic Dagpo Kagyu text.

Found exact quote:

We recognise the true Bodhisattva ... as fire is recognised by smoke and water by the ducks upon it. Gampopa quote.

That's a very interesting question ... does it have an answer?

Sinfest you are a CULT!

I'm going to enter him for the Kentucky Derby.

And when we've finished standing round like horses ... what then ... a gallop to the paddock?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vomnTQ113WQ

An arm and a leg, sir.

Someone once said I was a cult ... at least that's what I think they said.

I suspect that if you find yourself drawn back to this path then you have a connection to it which you might find helpful to follow. I'm interested that you find Bardon 'mechanical' because this is exactly what I would say. My teacher always stressed that there is no method to this work ... in the sense that you cannot follow a set of steps mechanically to achieve your goal. Some writers make it sound like this ... even though it may be that they don't really mean it. This is by no means special to Hermeticism there are some schools of Buddhism which suggest that it is a matter of simply repeating so many repititions and you will automatically achieve enlightenment. There is method of course but nt a mechanical one.

Deserves a thread of its own ... I did post something about this is Articles a while back.

Yes that sums up the alchemical path. The way you have posted it is almost impossible to read ... needs a better layout to do it justice.

@viator ... excellently put. I think the other point that should be made is that Hermeticism is not a philosophy or even a contemplative system. It is based on the view that reality is Spirit which is 'one and all'. That is it is in itself a unified field or continuum of consciousness or energy and at the same time is manifest in everything that exists at every level (including intelligences at every level of being). Hermetic Magick concentrates on the practical application of this fact. That it is possible to effect changes in accordance with the will. This is really a way of exploring and demonstrating the relationship between the self (the magician) and Spirit (the energy or consciousness) and that through reciprocal inter-function it is possible to come to 'know thyself'. So even if one were to apply a magical process to win the lottery or whatever the purpose would not be to gain money but to explore the relationship with Spirit ... to come to understand how Spirit operates and thus unlock the secrets of the nature of being.

Well, back to the topic. I think its an interesting fact that western hermetic practitioners often do use eastern systems. recently we have a thread on Crowley's TTC for instance. You don't seem to find the reverse happening ... Taoists with Tarot Cards or whatever. There are of course cross system hybrids in the East ... Buddhism and Bon, Buddhism and Taoism and so on. I think the reasons are at least two fold. One is that the very essence of hermeticism began with a combination of Jewish mysticism (Kabbalah), ancient pagan idea and neo-Platonic philosophy. It is by its very nature a kind of basterd child of mixed parents ... if I can put it like that. So when it comes to look at yoga, Taoism or Buddhist ideas and symbols it will quite happily take them on and put them in the casket with all the other treasures. This spirit of free assimilation is particular to hermeticism. The other reason is not mystical but worldly. Empire and global trade spread east from Europe and then America and not the other way round. The westerners were the explorers and discoverers of new lands and cultures and with that goes the discovery of new ideas and symbols. Hermetic magick works because it allows access to altered/expanded states of consciousness and self knowledge. It is not geared to winning the lottery ... although you will find this kind of thing in the grimoires it is not the primary purpose and most people even if tempted by this worldly stuff know really that it is not the way to go.

Happened everywhere: A book "Religion in Roman Egypt - assimilation and resistance" by David Frankfurter pub Princeton Mythos ISBN 0-691-07054-7. Frankfurter is Associate Professor of History and Religious Studies at the University of New Hampshire. In Chapter 7 of his book he describes how Christianity assimilated the pagan temples in Egypt around 300 - 500 AD. He says that despite the tendency of the Bishops to regard the pagan deities of the temples they took over as 'unclean spirits' and so on - it was not unusual for the reconsecrated temple/church to also take over the role of the temple in terms of the intervention of the supernatural in the local community. The production of charms and amulets and so on. He gives the example of the temple of Isis in Menouthis which was converted to Saints John and Cyrus in 484 AD but continued to 'advertise itself' as a centre for healing and conception. As he puts it 'One healing shrine superseded another'. He says that there were pilgrimage sites all over Egypt where people could go where on sleeping they would receive dreams relating to health and other matters including speaking to the dead. A Christianised version of a pagan practice. He then goes on to say the following in terms of this transfer of power from pagan to Christian … "…It is in this context of Christian idiom that all the "crossovers", the syncretisms, between Christian and native idioms occurred: Horus-Christs, Christ-Re's, the Ankh-crosses, the saints and angels and Mary images, modelled explicitly upon local images of power that still dominated the sensibilities of craftspeople, consumers, and supplicants, participants in that endless search for effective cures and protections."

under bodhi tree Santa rests his weary slay Ho, ho, Buddha boy.