Apech

My ears pricked up and I started bouncing around at the mention of rabbits.

Not sure I want to go back to a matriarchy any more than I want to stick with a patriarchy. There's a reason that one replaced the other to do with the evolution of consciousness. How about the rise of the non-dual, the person who can be male while holding to the female (and visa versa). True individuals who balance male and female within themselves and go beyond duality?

While I am sure you a right that some people use this stuff for financial gain and are thus suspect ... I think there is an underlying principle that we all affect each other by our thoughts and intentions. The way i think about it is that if you think that it is beneficial to wish people well (e.g. tonglen) the it is equally possible for the opposite ... to wish people unwell or something negative ... and for this to have an effect. I don't think this is always curses as such but simply the kind of detritus of human interaction ... you lick up a lot of stuff as you go through life ... soem good ... some not good. And you can end up carrying around a lot of baggage of negative associations and feeling. Just my thoughts.

The thread was not locked to prevent discussion of John Chang. It was not locked because of the idea of scientific testing of such powers. It was locked because bickering, insults and ad hominem attacks. Please feel free to carry on.

Excellent news. are you still getting pain?

I like the hyenas.

Maybe if you don't see - it isn't a problem. Good luck with your research.

There are a variety of feelings which I associate with qi. Tingling, a bubbly feeling, heat, sometimes cold, shiver, goosebumps, pressure ... as well as mental/emotional changes which correlate. I developed sensitivity to this over a number of years meditating and qi gong. How would I know what the EMF of the earth and my blood feels like? How would I know this was a real effect? I would have to imagine that this is so ... and I avoid these kinds of theories. Same with oxidative phosphorylation ... how would my nervous system pick that up? I don't know .. so how can I answer your questions? Its like people who claim they are tapping into dark energy or black holes or whatever ... how do they know that is what they are doing? they don't but they like to imagine it might be so. If they could demonstrate some kind of causative mechanism between themselves and a black hole I would begin to have some confidence in their assertions ... but until then I think its just the power of imagination. You need to test a number of practitioners and measure changes in metabolism to look for patterns. Then maybe start to develop a theory ... providing you observe some thing consistent. I still think you will face the chicken and egg problem. But maybe that doesn't matter too much.

I see what you are saying but I'm not sure about the word 'crutch'... I'm not particularly religious in the usual sense and yet I use the term qi because of my own awareness. Its a term for something. You might be right in that this term is not well understood and sometimes people use it as a way to stop thinking about what is happening. People should keep thinking and exploring what is happening IMO. One slight problem is that the qi effects if you want to call them that do not seem to operate well if you try to analyse too much. Your mind can inhibit qi as much as you can stimulate it. But aside from that I hope you are able to see into these processes further.

@informer Ah I see where you are coming from. I sense a slight chicken and egg argument may arise. Say you test qi gong practitioners with an MRI scanner on their brain activity during practice. (I think this has been done for meditators). Then you observe a statistically significant raised activity in certain brain centres. The participants subjectively assess this as qi flow. Ok. So you would still have two hypotheses. 1) there is something called qi which stimulates brain activity (or is linked/triggered by brain activity) or 2 ) people experience the sensation of qi when the brain is stimulated by some mechanism or other. You need to design an experiment which can only be explained if qi exists ... i.e. is real and not a subjective sensation. ?

Yes goosebumps, tingling, heat, cold etc. physical effects from qi I think that's normal. Why do you think it 'comes from the brain" ... maybe the brain is involved as a trigger but I don't see qi as coming in waves from the brain.

Don't see a problem with your idea. People have to use computers to access the board so anything that helps them with this is tech support I guess. Go ahead ... its great that you are willing to help other users! A.

*** Moderator Message *** We have received a number of reports on this thread along the lines that one poster challenging another's point of view, scientific qualifications or the legitimacy of their point of view amounts to trolling or somehow breaches the moderation rules and guidelines. Since this thread is about scientific approach to practice then questioning around this subject is allowed. If the conversation is reduced to bickering that derails the thread, deliberate hijacking or trading insults then we will take action to deal with this. We are not prepared to silence a poster for simply holding a non-consensus view as long as the arguments are respectfully and politely made. *** Apech for Mod Team ***

At the moment I am just an Apple iDunno. You could measure the effect but then they would dispute the mechanism by which that effect is caused I suppose.

Two basic rules of life are 1) never go back 2 ) never apologise I forgot to add mod privileges to some of the ppfs I set up ... so I, went back and added them, sorry 'bout that. A.

Ah I didn't know about them. Is there any information on actual achievements or success in measurement? One thought is that scientific measurements take place with instruments which operate at the 'level' of the observed phenomena ... e.g. meters for electricity based on variations of magnetic field etc. ... so what kind of instrument would detect qi ... ??? Just thinking out loud.

I think maintaining mutual respect is the key. As Voltaire said ... to paraphrase ... he did not agree with the other person but he would fight to the death for their right to say it. 'Something tangible to combine with subjectivity' ... well put I think. I like to take the pragmatic empiricism of science to my practice i.e. don't tell me what to believe - show me if it works. Anyway I just thought I'd butt in there for a moment ...

BBC very rarely gets the point on this kind of thing. Its like the real world is down the end of a microscope for them ... i.e. a long long way away and a bit strange and not quite understandable. Ah well good old aunty.

*** Moderator Message *** Hello, This has been an interesting thread so far with a lot of information - and based by a genuine heartfelt query. I sense that the thread might fall into bickering if we are not careful. That would be unfortunate. If we don't agree on something that's fine but we simply have to state our own point of view and if necessary move on. Please remember the no insult policy it will be enforced. Thanks. *** Mod Message ends ***

@informer ... impressive again! Biology is not my thing ... so forgive if this is a dumb question but is there some advantage to the dikaryote over the monokaryote having the increased growth rate ... or is it pure research?

@informer ... impressive ... where did you find out how to grow the mushrooms?

Hey Mark, I found this on Ancient Egyptians and cerebro-spinal fluid rhythm ... thought you might find it interesting.

Didn't know you could use Kindle for this! Impressed.

BBC website