Apech

yogaś-citta-vṛtti-nirodhaḥ ||2|| I take citta-vrtti to refer to modifications - specifically 'whirlpools' - that is stabilised cyclical forms in the mind-stuff (citta). Yoga being the 'control, suppression, cessation?' of these. or to quote Bharati:

I can see where you are coming from but I don't see the Hermopolitan and Heliopolitan views as in opposition but more complementary. Heliopolis ... Atum (the complete one) emerges from Nun and creates from his own body Shu and Tefnut. Hermopolis - the Ogdoad describe the Nun and then the intelligence of Thoth calls forth forms from the void with his voice and gives rise to Ra on the Island of Fire. They are different images of the same process.

The site of their worship is usually written Khemenu and means 'City of Eight' a reference to the Ogdoad ... it was called Hermopolis by the Greeks because it was also the centre of worship of Thoth = Hermes (Greek) ... this gives link to the moon also which was sacred to Thoth. Nun & Naunet = primeval waters >>> waxing quarter Kuk & Kauket = infinite darkness >>> waning quarter Heh & Hauhet = eternal space >>>> Full moon Amun & Amaunet = quintessential invisibility >>>> New Moon ... I would suggest ... but I don't think I've ever seen this given authoratively. Will look it up when I have time.

Hello friends, Imagine this. You are floating in an infinite dark watery expanse which spreads in every direction for ever ... such that there are no directions, there is no up, down, left, right and so on because there is no difference. It is dark, fluid, infinite and without any reference points at all. Slowly this water is dissolving everything associated with you which is not essential to your being. Your possessions, your friends, your thoughts, your feelings, your body .... what is left? Your residual awareness, your sentience is all. If it can be said to be yours since it is itself of itself. How can you exist with just this awareness in the void? ... sorry run out of time ... more later ...

Interesting comparison ... care to develop this idea?

nice and enigmatic ... but what do you mean?

Hi Deci Belle, Horus groupie eh? ... There's an Egyptian verb 'weben' (wbn) which means to shine as in 'wbn r' m pt' - 'the sun shines in the sky' ... which is probably related to the Benu bird. Also the Benben stone the site of creation or primeaval mound from which the sun first rose and a lotus bud called the B(e)n(e)t which was said to float in the pre-creational waters. They all refer to the 'something out of nothing' act of creation and renewal ... the Benu was also called Lord of Jubulees which is a about the Sed festival where the king underwent a form of rebirth (usually after about 30 years). The Benu like the scarab (khepera) were related to the heart. the Heart is the seat of this creation of something out of 'nothing'. In the book of the dead it says 'I have gone in as a falcon and I have come forth as a phoenix (Benu).' This is a reference to going into the underworld as a falcon (Horus) and coming out reborn as the heron = Benu. What does it all mean? let us discuss

Yeah, I wondered also, what a gorgeous little cat like you is doing in a place like this?

Fascinating ..thanks ...

Booo! (I was here all the time - did you notice?)

It says you can download it free of charge ... its a fairly old book and maybe copyright has expired ... either way they have given permission ... and yes that's the book I meant (assume TM meant this one too although Madam Blavatsky has written others.

I read Madam Blavatsky's Isis Unveiled a long time ago and it is certainly an interesting book. The best book I have read which gives a convincing link between Ancient Egypt and alchemy is Alison Roberts "My Heart My Mother" Amazon most of the book is a bit confused because she is not a mystic (see review on Amazon) but the final chapters on alchemy are very interesting. There is no doubt no matter what the etymology of the word, the actual practice of western alchemy derived a lot from Egypt.

Is the OP a good translation it seems a bit interpreted to me. I prefer the trans I posted on the other thread its a lot simpler. This one Yoga >>>> Sutras of Patanjali Interpretive Translation Presented by Swami Jnaneshvara Bharati www.SwamiJ.com This one >>> Yoga sutra pdf download

TM and Witch, Yes ... here is another illustration ... Isis as a 'kite' (bird) conceives Horus by the 'dead' i.e. passive Osiris PS. that is not a condom on his head lol! Its the white crown of Upper Egpyt which signifies he is drawing energy down from upper chakras - which fits with what you are saying I think.

You are right, the official history is flawed (and often 'updated' - i.e. previously wrong). My approach is to take the original Egyptian texts i.e. Pyramid Texts, Coffin texts, Book of the Dead and the Underworld 'maps' like the Amdwat and apply them to my meditation by interpreting them as the equivalent of internal alchemy texts. Egyptologists deal with them as funereal texts only even though the texts themselves say things like 'good to be done while on earth every day' and so on. I use the original hieroglyphs as much as possible backed up by good translations. There is so much in there that the task is awesomely huge and sometimes overwhelming. I have been doing this for several decades and occasionally 'give up' for short periods. I have learned a lot but it is one tiny fragment of a vast repository of knowledge/wisdom. Some significant similarities to Taoist thought and both 'emerged' from shamanism at similar times probably/certainly the same source.

HE, Please do not think I am denigrating the Egyptians I have studied and worked on Egyptian mysticism for many years. They achieved many great things but I question some of things attributed to them. I don't think the term alchemy is derived from khemet but I am certain that alchemic practice and the western hermetic system includes a transmission from Ancient Egypt ... if you read the Emerald Tablet the link is clear and Hermes Trismegistos = Thoth thrice great. A.

As our friend Vmarc was at pains to point out the Egyptians did not have a sky father or a mother earth. And Geb very much made love to Nut ... although in a slightly acrobatic fashion ...

By astrology I mean a zodiac and so on. They had an in depth knowledge of the night sky which they used for various purposes including telling the time (the decan stars - and star clocks). Certain stars and constellations were significant e.g. Orion = Osiris, Sirius = Isis and the Plough (Big Dipper) = the Imperishable souls. The course of sun on the plane of the ecliptic (Winding Waterway) and the phases of the Moon and certain of the planets. Sorry got to go now ... more later.

ChiDragon, I am by no means an expert in Chinese internal alchemy but what you have described just does not sound right. What makes you think you have understood jing, qi and shen properly? What makes you think you can equate jing to the body cells? Others have advised you to get some teachings from a qualified teacher ... this should be possible in the US I would have thought. I think it would be a good idea. A.

I think the only thing certain about the etymology of the word alchemy is its origin in the Greek "khymeia" which relates to working with molten metal. I think the Chinese link is interesting and probably has some merit although I'd like to see the time line of its emergence as a term. The Khemet root is, in terms of etymology a speculation based on the emergence of western alchemy in Egypt. While I am certain that alchemy and hermetic science has a lot of roots in Egypt - the Egyptians themselves did not practice anything that resembles the science of chemistry (although they did work metals of course) - the terms alchemy and chemistry were used interchangably until 17 century, neither did they have an astrology although stars were significant in their religion (unless you count very late stuff like the Denderah ceiling which is borrowed from the Greeks and Assyrians). It is possible that the Arabs attributed alchemy to Egypt and so called it literally 'the Egyptian (thing)' but despite being an Egyptophile myself I think its a bit thin. Metaphysically though its easy to see the idea of reality being composed of 'substances' being linked to Egyptian thought because of Atum and Ptah. And the main Egyptian texts like the BoD and the Pyramid Texts are in effect works on internal alchemy although such a term did not exist then.

Are you in Hong Kong ChiDragon?

I would welcome a section by section discussion of the sutras. i read them first when I was about 16 and they started me off on meditation. I don't want to get into copyright issues but a quick google of pantanjali yoga sutras pdf revealed some downloads . I wrote a poem once which started "Oh what a pity, Citta vrrti." ... well it made me laugh. A.

Hello matey, I think TTBs owes you a big debt of gratitude for all the work you put in over the years to make this a great place. I saw that you are still helping people even though you are not a mod no more and that speaks volumes about your fantastic attitude. I think and hope that there is a way back. Cheers Apech

I like this chapter: Thanks for posting the link. Some of the chapters which talk about ego and separation sound quite Buddhist to me.