Apech

Vid was a bit boring TBH and more of a promotional.

The general signs of a successful Buddhist practice are : 1) You are less self involved and kinder to others 2) You daily want less and less from the world (I do mean want - you may well be doing more) 3) Doubt and confusion about the way forward seem to disappear. Personally I think I need a hole in the head, like I need a hole in the head lol!

Adam himself said on here that he used hermeticism to penetrate other systems - it was linked above.

Why no mention of that Hermetic teacher in their lineages????

Hmmmm ...

Just a poll to get your views on visualisation in meditation etc. Please vote and then leave a post below with your reasons if you wish.

Things

Respect for me is the secret of spiritual success! Mahamudra does not use visualisation - but a typical practitioner is likely to be doing sadhanas as well which will involve visualisation - as supporting practice if you like.

Another one

Shall we have a separate mysteries of Damo thread cos this ne was supposed to be a quick poll?

A juicy body! ….

Mind blown!

I had no idea he was a member/ex-member of this place! Well, well, well.

Is this why Mizner mention Franz Bardon when asked about what visualisation he had done?

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cambridge-archaeological-journal/article/an-upper-palaeolithic-protowriting-system-and-phenological-calendar/6F2AD8A705888F2226FE857840B4FE19

The rest of us

A little harsh @Taoist Texts - he was trying to be helpful and just picked a page. Anyway let us not make this about criticising each other. I read through Wang Mu a few years ago and then read it again making notes for myself - I just came across my notes when going through papers. It seemed to me a lot clearer than say Charles Luk's Taoist Yoga, which I also have. But I wondered if there was anything even better out there. Or if it is in itself 'enough' so to speak. That's all.

Thanks I'll look up Nathan Brine ... is the online stuff worthwhile?

Could you expand on that a little? Do you mean it's a theory rather than practice work?

"Do you practice regularly?" "Now and Zen."

@steve, I don't know much about Dzogchen so I'll stick to my practice which is mahamudra. First from a technical point of view the Mahayana school which is related to jhanas is Zen. As you know dhyana - jhana - ch'an - zen are all the same word in variously Sanskrit, Pali, Chinese and Japanese. The schools which emphasise this tend to be about 'just sitting' as in zazen. I think it is very easy to confuse this with 'resting in the natural state' of mahamudra/dzogchen. I don't blame Adam for making this mistake because he's not alone in this. Funnily enough it was a common criticism of mahamudra by dzogchenis that mahamudra was just Ch'an because they objected to Gampopa's development of sutra mahamudra amongst other things. Sakya Pandita said Kagyu monks spent hours praying fervently to their guru and weeping ... and then when it came to meditation just fell asleep! Anyway that is an aside. When I first started ngon dro years ago ... I went to see the Lama and said when do I start mahamudra meditation - and he said 'you already have'. So I can say with certainty that although ngon dro translates as 'preliminary practice' actually it isn't like stepping stones. You begin with the mahamudra approach and work on it from there. Even more so I know that dzogchen begins with pointing out instructions. So Adam is wrong to say that you study for 12 years and then do it - it's not like that at all. As regards jhanas - when Gampopa first met his root guru Milarepa he demonstrated his ability to remain in absorbtion for hours/days (he was already an advanced practitioner) and Milarepa said he was just wasting his time and introduced him to his teachings. Gampopa himself in the Jewelled Ornament of Liberation described dhyanic nirvana as 'just a rest'. A rest form samsara. I realise these are just tales from long ago but these are the teachings I have received. As regards Adam Mizner - I can say that I agreed with at least 80% that he said. I very much liked the 'just be kind' don't imagine being kind part - that was spot on. He is accomplished in his own field. He's entitled to his views of course but I know from my own experience that the martial arts - nei dan route is very different to the tantric Buddhism route. Reading across requires care and there are many pit falls.

Be warned!!!!!

Curse you @steve on the internet - I had to listen to a lot to find it - 1:42:10 on ... he says dzogchen/mahamudra is day one in the Forest Tradition ie. jhanas. - he goes on to say when prompted to say ngon dro is just some kind of conditioning.

Perhaps the lama was out for justice or thinking he was hard to kill, or even under siege?

In the same interview.