Apech

I ponder these words... fistula, basket, lemon, Don't know why, just do.

I don't think the Tao or Taoism has the ability to be offended. If some one were to say F*** Taoism then I think they need to think about the effect on themselves of holding such a thought. What is not acceptable is someone saying: so-and-so you are a f***ing c*** why don't you f***ing go and f*** yourself you f***. I believe this may be a quote from the screen play of Reservoir Dogs and would constitute plagiarism, but seriously - personal insults are not ok.

chaotic balance... weigh out some new potatoes? it's just bananas.

Mel is making a very valid point. TTBs is great because don't always agree with each other and there is no party line or officially correct view. When people start bickering it gets very tiresome and you get long threads which just seem to be a series of insults. But I would rather keep some of the name calling (provided no racist or homophobic or anything of that nature) than lose the energy of debate. I've learned an immense amount from being on here just by reading all the links or from the posts themselves - even when I didn't really agree with the ideas. Where people follow others around just to have a go at a particular poster ... well that's just childish and people should look at themselves and their motives.

This is good.

yes I think that's along the right lines

Thanks for the article. Yes the Greeks are one of the main sources for info on the ancient world. As to Fig 5. b ) - I know it says its Hellenistic but it is actually Medieval from Ashmolean 399 which is 13th Century : it will have been based on Galen I guess because he was still the authority - but its not actually Ancient Greek. Even so its interesting and if the Greeks thought in terms of internal structures like this then the most likely origin for this way of thinking was Egypt, simply because Egypt was already ancient when the Greeks first came on the scene. The book I'm using Ancient Egyptian Medicine by John F. Nunn (he is a trained doctor) says this about the metu: So I think we have to decide either that the Egyptians were confused or ignorant about internal structures - which is hard if not impossible to believe - or they were describing structures which were not physical in the usual sense (i.e. meridians) - which, given their religious/magical focus is easy to believe. The possible word play end/anus is typical of the Egyptians. They clearly saw a flow both to and from this point and ascribed (some) illness to toxic flow from the bowel to the rest of body ... which could overwhelm the heart (the seat of consciousness). So I think they were saying that the anus was a major nexus and not necessarily the end as in where the whole system finished. Don't worry about being slow in responding we are spanning five millennia here so time is not an issue.

Sorry but this thread is about the Eye of Horus, its use for fractions in Egyptian mathematics and what this means symbolically. All this is supported by facts drawn from Egyptological research. If you want to discuss conspiracy theories why don't you start a new thread.

OK that could be called obscure ... but are you saying a) deliberately codified in poetic imagery, or b ) deliberately wrong in some way - mistakes put in to stop the reader working out the secret? Not the same thing of course - some things are almost impossible to describe in literal language.

Scotty, Could you give an example of the sort of thing you mean.

To paraphrase Winston Churchill - I have a lot to be unassuming about (haha). I agree about the nuts and bolts investigation. Its hard enough getting to know anything about one's own responses and if this is about other people you can't possibly know the causes and processes - you just don't have that kind of information. I see it more like negotiating a terrain. Just as when you go for a ramble in the countryside you learn to climb hills, cross streams and so on - you don't ask why is there a hill, how did it come to be (unless you are a geologist I suppose but that's different). So I think when you go into situations - say if you work in an office, then you will be very conscious of the atmosphere, the tensions, the relationships - you just have to find your way around without either falling on your face or being dragged into the mire .... So yes - avoid the over analysis ... and in particular anything that does draw you in - well its your hook probably .... 'subtle winds stroking the mind' - I like that. I might see something like that alone on a mountain but in rush hour traffic or in the middle of a blazing row??? I think we need useful praxises (praxi? praxes? ... whatever) to deal with the world. Yes again ... I agree no-mind ... 'I don't mind if you no mind' But I guess all I would say is that when even Buddhas and Bodhisattvas come to teach ignorant fools like me ... then they have to be able to empathize with my perspective. So I think they have two eyes - a transcendent one and a relative one - so when I say I'm worried about whatever they don't piss themselves laughing at my stupidity they can actually bend down to help me. It's like 'in the world but not of the world' - whoever said that??? Maybe I didn't get you ... but its a nice conversation.

This is good. I would say that what you are feeling is an inevitable consequence of cultivation and it won't go away. Its a difficult problem I think and while some of it goes back to your own stage of development or spiritual maturity the fact is that the world is full of people who are not cultivators and continually splurge their feelings and neuroses all over everyone else. I think the real reason people become hermits is because at certain times they need the space to work on themselves with out the interference ... this is why Milarepa kept moving to higher caves until he was ready to teach. But that's kind of extreme and he was engaged in a very fast track system. I don't have an off the shelf answer just a few points from my experience. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance - you have to watch the process all the time, observe how it happens, when it is strongest and so on. Track it so you know its routines and spare yourself the worst if your own energy is low. You have to deal with everything as energy (for want of a better word) - feelings of others are just energy no matter what the form - awareness can transform them ... as in 'consciousness is the catalyst' ... i.e. something that facilitates a process without actually taking part. And lastly understand that the ground of a certain way of working is this environment ... its like a terrain which can get to know, understand and negotiate ... through this develop real compassion for others. Hope this makes some kind of sense.

the time is priceless while gravity cost a lot its value's falling.

Condolences ... so very sad.

HI, Before I go on I must point out I am not an expert in this. From experience I have observed that a lot of people become interested in sex/qi and so on ... in fact its probably the sex part that sparks the initial interest ()... but they try to control or sublimate the energy somehow in a rather unholistic way. What I mean is they think that just somehow putting the batteries on a high voltage charger is somehow going to sort everything out ... give them powers or whatever. Its a bit like trying to tie a knot in your willy so nothing can leak out and thinking your going to be happy and healthy IMO. IMO people should not be celibate to become spiritual ... they may become celibate because they are spiritual (but that's different). I think that non-ejaculatory orgasms is a good aspiration BTW its just that you have to approach it holistically ... the redirected energy is going to excite higher centers ... heart and head ... your emotions and thoughts will be changed ... so you have to work at refining the whole of your being from day one. If you learn to concentrate ... and by that I mean rest your mind without effort (not furrowed brow stuff) ... and then observe your body's response to sexual excitement ... follow the feeling inward ... to its root ... the feeling changes radically so that you can approach a different kind of orgasm. So I would start with lots of sitting meditation during which time you moderate but do not stop your sexual activity (not while you are sitting but in life ). Learn to experience your body as a zone of feeling and not a physical object. Feel rather than think or visualize. Look at the feelings as they are without trying to change or judge them. Follow the feelings to their essential core and see where that leads you. Experiment and learn your own way. That's it.

dew drops on petals when the morning is earth moist oh so gentle sun.

Ah thanks - might buy it - looks good.

I've been doing these ... soon I will have a body like hers ... well not exactly ...

Thanks - those lunges will be the death of me!

No, which book is that (I should probably know but I'll ask anyway). I think my right hip is probably an old old problem. When I was 11 I broke my thigh bone and was in traction for 6-8 weeks. I don't think it was set with proper alignment and so I have had knee and hip probs on that side since. Also I used to do Aikido and I had a tendency to stress the right side too much which ended up in a bad knee problem which has not gone away.

Well been doing stretches for a few days now and my posture is improving but have realised that my problem is not so much my dodgy knee or my fused L5 but my right hip which lacks flexibility. It feels oddly like its too strong if you see what I mean. Any good stretches for hips? Nowhere near full lotus BTW can't get my right knee on the floor but its not brushing against my ear any more (ha ha). The year long gong continues!!!

Clearly I don't know you or your circumstances but these things are like a feedback loop. Its all about feeling ... if you feel good about yourself then people will tend to feel good about you ... ( I know this sounds like a cliche but its true).

If enlightenment = realizing the true nature of reality ... then how can there be more than one form of enlightenment? This is just a question BTW

hello I just go to the etymology of these words ... consciousness = 'with' 'knowing' ... that which allows knowing to occur ... maybe? awareness = similar to consciousness but with the sense of alertness for danger ... think of the word 'wary' which has the same root. universe = Lat. 'one' 'turn' meaning everything within the cycle of existence. so universal consciousness would mean something like that which is everywhere and allows everything to be known. If you were religious you would mean the omniscience of God ... I think this may be Tao as mother of the ten thousand things - better ask a proper Tao scholar.