Apech

Marbles, Obviously (and you probably realise this) what you experience day to day is the quantum world at a macro level. It's important, I think, to remember that quantum effects are real experimentally verifiable events. In fact without them we would have no semi-conductors and so no computers and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Quantum mechanics was developed to explain observed effects and became very useful when the scientists stopped trying to be mystics and philosophers and got on with the business of developing technologies. The fact is that the ordinary universe that we observe day to day does behave like this … it does behave as if a particle can be in two places at once … it is a fact that it is impossible to fix the position and momentum of a small particle … this is how things are … but the issue is about developing a coherent theory which explains all this in a way that makes sense and works in the real world. Because this is such a challenging issue there are many wild and woolly views which come from theoretical physicists (most of these will end up on the library shelves archived as curious and entertaining dead ends). What's good for Taoists is that some ideas fit very well with the Tao. Change as at the underlying principle of life for instance or interactivity (like yin and yang) generating multiplicity and the relative application of values and so on.

Thank you Gold that was totally fascinating.

More useful probably.

Seconded. Nothing against Zen though!

This is basic physics. When the light creates an interference pattern (stripes) it is because it is behaving as a wave. The two slits in effect take small samples from the wave front as it hits them. The two samples becomes light sources in themselves and as waves they overlap. When they overlap in some places they cancel each other out (the dark stripes) and in other places they add together (the bright stripes). This is the same as when waves on the surface of water interact with each other and the water surface becomes 'choppy'. But in this case because the light from the two slits are in phase (because they both come from the original light bulb) they interfere in a nice ordered pattern. When they start to look at light as photons then these are like individual particles. They should not produce interference patterns because separate particles are not waves so there is no adding and subtracting of peaks and troughs - in fact there is no connection between the photons which are like little bullets. But when they add the patterns produced by many photons the patterns re-emerge. So even though they can detect individual photon impacts (the dots) somehow the interactivity which waves demonstrate is preserved. This is called the paradoxical nature of light - in that is behaves both as separate particles and waves at the same time. This is an indisputable empirically verifiable fact. What is not a fact are the theories to explain how it happens. In order to create interference patterns the photons have to group together - so what is the connection between photons which allows this to happen? To put it in simple terms how does any one photons know where any other photon is at any one time? Or is it that a single photon can be in two places at the same time? This is a puzzle which it is worth contemplating if not least so that we can remember the mystery of the world and that we don't really understand the universe in which we live.

I like that video. It took me ages to figure out how to post vids too.

use insert media button. Go to youtube - copy the link in your browser ... something like then insert this in the 'insert media' field after deleting the http:// it gives you automatically so it appears only once.

feel the pulse of change... falling leaf gently settles is that another year?

I knew you meant that really but couldn't resist a cheap shot.

Looks like I don't have much karma then.

mirroring oneself... have you met my clone brother? two peas from a pod.

do a world of good by doing nothing at all act but do not act.

Well done Mr. Cow! ad infinitum... those endless commercial breaks why not change channels?

Thanks! Its nice to have positive feedback. I don't know if it has been covered elsewhere but maybe I'll post an article on it sometime when I finish what I'm writing. Taobums is great for developing ideas (sometimes ... when we avoid squabbling of course )

Hello to you too.

I'm dieing to prove you wrong.

No I don't think I do either but my question is still the one to answer.

Exactly! The natural world requires (if I can put it that way) that beings grow old and die. There is something in us that does this. Its natural. Like the riddle of the Sphinx : what has four legs in the morning, two at midday and three in the evening - answer 'man'. Where I'm going with this ... if there is an alchemical Taoist process which stops aging and overcomes death then it must act on what makes us die. What makes us die is not fundamental to the physical matter that makes us up because that does not die it just changes from being organized as a body to not being organized as a body .... so what does the organizing? Answer that and you will have the answer.

which do you favor? a haiku chain with strict rules or just anarchy? :)

This is a thread following on from a conversation I was having with S-curve on the Kundalini thread. Its about the external world. There's a lot of talk about K and its effects in terms of one's energy or mental state. Some people find the changes, visions, energy movements that K awakening produces to be disconcerting or even frightening. Sometimes people plunge into actual mental illness or undergo long periods of discomfort caused by the blockages to the energy flow. All this is quite well documented. Other people don't have any problem with all this kind of thing but their problems arise in relation to the external world, life in other words. It also seems that raising internal energy can precipitate changes in your life which can be challenging and difficult. All this points to a need to achieve balance between inner and outer worlds to become whole and even perhaps get better luck and so on. There are moral teachings of course but it would be interesting to get peoples ideas on dealing with daily life especially when things seem to be against you. John

Yes I have thought about a dog. We used to have one but it died and that was so heartbreaking that we decided not to get another. Our next door neighbours have a giant white thing whose head is bigger than the rest of its body and they have said they will look out if there is any disturbance. I've lived here six years and gf for 12 years and we have survived all the probs - it used to be worse by the way. As to things that fly around your head or whatever ... I do think that we are 'tested' but tend to think that this is somehow mechanistic rather than evil sprites but I am open to ideas.

-a fresh autumn peach... or all year hydroponics unseasonal fruit.

Marblehead I like to foolishly rush in where angels fear to tread ... its just how I am. Someone on here said the 'lowest level' of immortality is the physical one! As if that's quite easy! I still think the question around immortality is not how can you do it ... but why do we grow old and die? For instance your body is made of cells which are constantly renewed and replaced ... completely every seven years ... so your cells are quite young even though you are quite old. Why do our bones get brittle, our muscles weak and our senses start failing? Why does our hair grow white and our teeth wobble when the cells comprising those things are less than seven years old. But it does happen ... so if its not the matter that makes up the body which is growing old then what is getting old? And since as you point out Marblehead we all die ... then why is this necessary? And if you know why it is happening, why it is necessary then why would you work against it? As a Taoist at one with nature why would you work against a natural process?

Someone said we haven't even defined immortality yet ... which I think would be a good starting place. I agree with Marblehead when he hit the nail on the head by saying we all die (well there's Jesus I suppose but we're not sure about him). Since we all die then maybe we should ask why ... why do we all die? And if we don't die completely just the body... then why is that? And if something of us persists then what is that? And what does that tell us about who we are anyway? Is physical immortality possible? Then what would a physically immortal body look like that is different to one that dies? ?