Apech

Someone said we haven't even defined immortality yet ... which I think would be a good starting place. I agree with Marblehead when he hit the nail on the head by saying we all die (well there's Jesus I suppose but we're not sure about him). Since we all die then maybe we should ask why ... why do we all die? And if we don't die completely just the body... then why is that? And if something of us persists then what is that? And what does that tell us about who we are anyway? Is physical immortality possible? Then what would a physically immortal body look like that is different to one that dies? ?

Thanks! That's a real positive point, I shall ruminate on it. The thing though is - when things happen like this they seem significant as if somehow life and your practice have conspired to teach you something - but what that thing is, is quite often pretty elusive. When the thing is unpleasant then you tend to just think - I hope that does not happen again.

If they come armed in that way I shall adopt the age old martial art strategy of throwing money and credit cards in their general direction while running away. Mind you if the razor blades are Sensor Excel then I could do with a few, they cost a fortune in Boots. (In case you didn't know this strategy is called 'Tiger Merges with Long Grass' or 'Wa Yu Hai-din Strai-Pi Kat' in the original lingo.) PS. I spent the day in Lake District today and this happened: Shootings in Cumbria OMG maybe I am a bad karma spreading demon!

Hey Ninps, Where have you been? Obviously from your cat arming comments you have been meditating in a cave somewhere on harmlessness and forgiveness ... and concluded both are pointless??? The policewoman who came to see us very helpfully told us that we were lucky because at a break-in nearby they had used baseball bats and razors. This is the kind of reassurance you need in the circumstances. I use the name John as a ninja cloak of anonymity, if someone shouts "John, you *****" in a crowded place, half the men turn to look while I conceal myself in the nearest waste bin.

what's there not to see? just a billion billion worlds vast as a pin head.

Hi all, I want to revive my failing thread on the inner and the outer. A week ago on Saturday something happened that made me think of this discussion. It was very hot weather (for England) and I had had trouble sleeping the night before cos it was so hot and humid - so I felt rotten. At lunchtime my girlfriend went to the shops to get a few supplies and left me on my own so I thought I'll do a bit of sitting to up my energy and for a bit of clear out. Theses days I favor a particular way of doing this which involves consciously removing attention from the body by exclusively focusing on the breath. When I do this all the channels open and I get a very powerful 'flush' which purges my body. I was part way through this process when I heard some noise outside the house (I was upstairs). At this point I should explain that I live in a fairly rough neighborhood and my house opens onto a passageway and sometimes stuff happens outside. Usually I would go to see what was going on but because I was doing this exclusive breath watching I didn't bother. A few moments later there was a bump on the front door (which I thought might be the post) followed by an almighty bang. By this time I had given up my meditation. I went downstairs to find the front door had been kicked open, the lock broken and the door split. I rushed outside to see two youths disappearing round the corner about 50m away. Obviously they were intent on breaking in but had run off when they heard me coming down. They only kicked the door in because I hadn't responded to the noise and the first knock - which were just a way of seeing if the house was empty. Obviously I have some fairly shit karma but that aside ... after all the fuss had died down I thought about how ironic it was that at the very moment of my conscious withdrawal from external stimuli, the outside world had so brutally intruded. Indeed if this had been a dream then you could have taken the whole thing as symbolic ... the inner and the outer ... two worlds but linked in some way ... anyway I thought I would share .... Cheers John

Surya Das authorisation just for clarity's sake I looked him up (before rushing to judgement).

to reach for the Tao... like stretching to touch the moon, how long is your arm?

mouse goes undisturbed the servant of Apollo steals Demeter's grain.

Hi and welcome to TTBs - enjoy your stay.

like an owl in flight... clouds cross the moon, is it wise now to be a mouse?

If that feeling does pass, then you would have to ask yourself ... have I settled back down to the ordinary? or have I moved on to a new level of understanding and being. I would savour this feeling and love the uncertainty ... its a gift.

just keeps goin 'round... an unbroken haiku chain its end is the start. (anyone else notice we are in the last 100 towards 3000 posts!)

Very interesting article - thanks for posting. I think that understanding spatial cognitive mapping is one of the keys to understanding ourselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyu2Fg6NIA8

It has to be the woman - not because of her or him but because of the resultant child - the innocent third party in a relationship based on deception - not exactly an immaculate conception. Overall I would say that these are all destructive human games ... honesty is the only real path otherwise its manipulation which in the long run gets bad results.

Another gem, Marblehead, thanks.

I dig your garden (ha ha get it?). Mattocks are the best for digging and hoeing I find. I agree about modern tools they don't last. Enjoy your veggies nothing tastes as good as something grown yourself. Cheers John

I want to make a contribution to the consciousness debate - because I think a lot of the time we are really talking about how we can apply terms to things. Consciousness is always a difficult one because in some ways it is viewed as something that human beings and some animals have exclusively and at other times a kind of universal property of spirit or energy or the universe. The term consciousness is ordinarily taken to apply to awareness, thought, the ability to conceptualize, the power of speech, sensory perception and so on. In other words a whole gamut of activity of what we might call mind. This is very much the human experience of what it means to be conscious. If we look at the ramifications of conscious activity they seem not only vast but also sophisticated because you might think about the creative works of man, music, poetry and science and so on. But on the hand we look at the basis of all this conscious activity then it might become simplified and easier to see what is going on. I think that the basis for conscious lies in sentience, the ability to feel. I don't mean feel in the sense of the range of human emotions and sensations that we are all familiar I mean the simple ability to receive signals or influence from surrounds and respond to them. This is a very inclusive way of thinking of 'feeling' because it doesn't depend on the quality or nature of the actual experience of feeling but simply the fact that an organism or whatever can sense its surrounding and has some kind of response to what it senses. If we use this kind of definition than we can definitely include all animal life as sentient and also plants (since they, for instance sense sunlight and turn toward it). Now you might say the plants are purely mechanical in doing this but if you look at my definition of feeling there is nothing to put the sun seeking of flowers outside the nature of feeling as defined. This is because they do receive signals from their surrounding and respond to those signals - this is indisputable. So we can develop the argument to say that the basis for feeling is interactivity. So we now have a kind of hierarchy. Interactivity >>> leads to >>> feeling >>>leads to >>> consciousness. Perhaps controversially we can take this one step further by looking at the physical world as manifest. We know it is composed of atoms and molecules which in turn are made up of sub-atomic particles which themselves are modalities of vibrational energy adopting particular behaviour. But we also know that unless these particles interact then there cannot be a physical world. Atoms interact with each other and also form molecules. The atoms themselves depend on the structured interaction of electrons, protons and neutrons which themselves appear to be made up of interacting smaller particles. How is it possible for one packet of energy over there to interact with another over here? The answer is in fundamental forces like electromagnetism and gravity which attract and bind or repel and release the different bundles of energy to and from each other. So it would be entirely logical to say that sub-atomic particles receive signals from their surroundings and respond to them. If they did not then all this would not be possible. If we accept this idea then the 'equation' of : Interactivity >>> leads to >>> feeling >>>leads to >>> consciousness, gives a complete continuity in all of nature with regard to consciousness and its basis (i.e interactivity) without having to make it something etherial or something only added later to an otherwise inert material universe.

"all have their half-truth" - "Oh yes that's right! or maybe - sometimes a half-lie."

Where does consciousness come from if not the Tao? I guess we all agree that consciousness is a reality.

Oh please don't lurk! This whole place is about discussion and its great to hear your voice. Its not about being right or wrong but about putting your own ideas and seeing what others say. I learn every time I post because I find that although I think I have understood something I am (I hope) big enough to realize when I haven't or perhaps my understanding is limited. Your contributions have been great. Back to the debate: Do you think we are getting too hung up on 'constant', 'complete', 'unchanging' - with regard to the Tao then it is both constant (in a sense) and inconstant (in another sense) ... and so on. That is not to make it into a meaningless abstract but to say it is real but is too big for any concept we might like to throw at it. (?) The laws of physics ... I have a problem with because as formulated they are human constructs and also every generation they get completely turned on their head e.g quantum mechanics versus classical mechanics and so on. If you mean the real 'way' in which the universe works which these laws struggle to describe then I would go some way to agreeing. John

Well yes, its only an analogy! Everything changes including your mind ha ha ha!

Sorry I don't understand.

You are in the field of TheTaoBums - why not explain your point of view or knowledge rather than calling other people 'an embarrassment'? Come on, you've met a famous philosopher so lets hear what you know.