Apech

Choose or be chosen... Pick your own nose or be picked So the choice is yours.

Interestingly, well interesting to me anyway, both words 'consciousness' and 'science' come from a root L. scire 'to know' which in turn comes from words which mean to 'cut through' hence decide. Science analytically cuts the world up to categorise and identify the objective world with the ultimate objective of being able to manipulate and control through technology (unless you are a pure scientist who might cut just to know). Science is successful because of its objectivity and its drive to break things down to their constituents to see how they work. But it is not great at reflexivity and it stumbles when it comes to the end points of the very big and the very small where the objective world gets a little elusive. Consciousness then means 'con' - together/with, cutting to know - ability. Consciousness is that which knows. That which observes the cutting process. Like when we say "there's a tree over there" we divide our environmental continuum into parts in order to identify their form and function. The tree is the object, the observed, and the consciousness is the observer. You can look for any form or function from the grossest, densest stone to the most subtle form of energy and identify it. Give it a name, state its function and form. These are the apparent objects which we observe but what you can't do is make consciousness into an object. The observer is not the observed ... save that you might say that they both arise from a non-dual unconditionality which is beyond both. Science has a problem with consciousness because it wants it to be an object. Or perhaps an effect arising from the interaction of objects ... like brain chemistry for instance or electrical nerve impulses. But this brings about all sorts of conceptual anomalies ... like how does something insensate become sentient through complexity and at what point does this happen. So although science can describe many processes in the body which relate to our awareness/consciousness it cannot explain how or why we are conscious in the first place (or at least I haven't read anything that successfully does this). There also seems to be a confusion in mystical schools between those who use the term consciousness as being synonymous with the non-dual source (for want of a better term) and those which address the skhanda of consciousness which is as an attribute of the perception of objects does not exist in any sense independent of those supposed objects. I think this is just a kind terminological dispute and nothing more.

as we rewire... plug me into the socket feels like doing KAP. (see Kap thread for details )

Maybe feel a little wired afterward? Bad joke - but its not my volt.

So he was putting mains 240 volts AC current through you?

For info. UK electricity is 240 V alternating current at 50 Hertz (cycles per second) ... so either he had a transformer or what he was doing sounds pretty dangerous to me.

with natural ease... an unnatural disease infected my ass. (I feel this may be an all too common problem these days )

Hello knowledgeable ones, I have been reading Eva Wong's "Cultivating Stillness" over the Xmas/New Year and am interested in the diagram (Fig. 1 in the book) - version attached below. I wondered if anyone knew of any source material which deals with this diagram in greater depth - online or in print. Thanks. A7.

swiftly the hawk flies... right into my living room drink beer watch TV.

'neath the empty sky.. is some empty atmosphere breath and nitrogen.

XYZ dollars! What happened to numbers - do we have to count in letters now? Or have I fried all my synapses with a burst of chi?

I like to balance left and right and get the benefits of both.

sleep is my coffin and waking is my arm chair watch the world go by.

Is this a crossover from the stronger erections thread?

Thanks for timing it for the early evening it'll give me time to prepare my hot chocolate drink.

Having read this thread about the effect on people's computers I have decided I would like to apply to be banned - how does one go about it - is there an application form to complete?

Thanks. I've found limited material. But I have been able to confirm that Wiki was far too generous with the dates of Zhou which are given elsewhere as 770BC making it much later. I realise its unreliable as a source (unless you know who posted) but I have done some work on some of the Egyptian stuff so I knew those dates were more or less ok. One thing I can agree wholeheartedly about is the distortion of archeology by the archeologist - especially 19 century and early 20 century - who were very prone to project their own theories and prejudices on the evidence. This is why I always work with source material triangulated (where possible) with verifiable evidence. Putative mythological origins are fine if understood to be what they are but I don't like to mix these with hard evidence like properly dated artifacts and so on. I also agree that historical views based on Europe and the Middle East are slanted. I think that from the very earliest times mankind has had a very broad lines of communication and carried with it a wisdom about nature/reality and so on. Anything seen from this perspective would challenge the orthodox view of the history of mankind.

Wong says that the Ho-to revealed itself through a pattern on a horse to Fu-hsi. Lo-shu on the shell of a tortoise to Emperor Yu - but does not give a date for either event. I realise Fu-hsi was supposed to have lived 6000 years earlier but if so are there examples of the diagrams from this period? I'm interested in these burial sites you mention - do you mean Banpo? If not can you give me any names? Thanks.

winter crows that sing I see black flags in the wind in a bleak chorus.

Findlay's been banned! Why? I don't see that Drew's that far out of line really. He was probably in full lotus and giving people orgasms at the time and therefore not responsible for his own actions. Its annoying when people try to spam but its really obvious as well. Caveat emptor and all that.

wind in deep winter many helpings of bean soup silent but deadly.

Check your neck posture and maybe get some massage.

JK, Thank you for your kind offer but the demands of the rest of my life would prevent me traveling to China. I didn't realise that the book was intended as a 'Rosetta Stone' and I would say if so, it is only partly successful, although it is a very interesting book - hence my original question. All I was after was a bit more background and people have been most helpful. I don't really follow your point about schools. I didn't go to school in the US although I did spend some time there when I was younger. I don't think I would struggle to follow the 186 rules though - except perhaps the one about keeping warm in winter and cool in summer, we have the coldest winter for 60 years here although signs of a thaw today! A7.

I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. The oldest extended corpus of written religious writing in the world is the Egyptian Pyramid Texts (~2300/2400 BC) of King Unas (or Wenis). In these texts are ideas which are clearly older and given how developed they were when first written and that they come towards the end of the pyramid building age must stretch back at least to around 3000 BC. The Four Sons of Horus as a) guardian spirits of the major organs of the body, b ) four aspects of the construction of the cosmos and c) the four rudders of heaven are the antecedents of the what was later to be incorporated into Babylonian/Hellenistic zodiacs and so on which led to the four beasts and the four elements. In other words it was a consistent theme in the tradition of thinking which came from the ancient world through places like Alexandria and was preserved in traditions such as western alchemy and Hermeticism. Every valid system of thought/symbolism of this kind is developed in a way which internally self consistent. They are models which allow us to reflect on the nature of reality. Where problems emerge is when trying to read across from system to system - this is because each 'element' in each system makes sense in the context of that system. The idea of 'metal' as an element or 'stage of change' did not exist as an explicitly stated function in the west and so it was not the case that it was dropped, left out or forgotten. Yep ... I think that's an interesting analysis.