Apech

OK shall we start with loose fitting robes?

Is it better to be fixed or broken? (This is a new Zen Koan I just writ.)

No the collar was for fleas and lasted just about as long as it took to take the photo. He was not happy about it! He is a free cat who loves to roam. We used to have a black dog as well and they used to play together. Also they would go for walks together which looked cute - but the dog sadly died a few years ago.

The offending objects were removed before we inherited him ... anyway he seems happy, maybe its an option for others

Yes, I am a he just like my tom cat avatar (although he lacks certain parts which I still possess).

Guidelines could be: Buddhists : be gentle, generous and compassionate, unattached to the outcome of the discussion. Taoists : recognize that the superior is only known because the inferior exists, cultivate chi, unattached to the outcome.

treat symptom, not cause with some expensive lotion because you're worth it. *shakes silky hair and gazes into the camera*

OK - good luck. A.

Marble, Do you realize that in the time it took you to type the last two posts you could have made and drunk a nice cup of tea. Also in the same time scale Witch would probably have had 50 orgasms. I realize it is not you who is prolonging this futile debate and I only make these rather feeble points because I am feeling very worn down by this Taoist/Buddhist feuding. We have already decided to settle this by means of a no holds barred bout of fisticuffs between the two titular heads - I think that is enough. A.

Stick the kettle on - I'll bring some ginger biscuits.

All I can say that it is the slowest 'suddenly' I have ever experienced! ...is it suddenly the Spanish Inquisition entered the room?

Yes, that would be good.

We should have a tea party.

What??????

KK, Do you want to keep your relationship with your wife on a one to one basis? or are you content to live with this situation? A.

Don't get this one.

To me V. seems to be ignoring the Shen-tong view (which I quoted somewhere above or in another thread) which views the Dharma-dhatu or Buddha-nature as an existent. Even Rang-tong commentators point out the difference between the intellectual position of dependent origination and 'positive' emptiness of the space-like nature of reality. Grasping the view of emptiness of phenomena in Buddhism is essential and it is a kind of mental discipline which guards against reification - but it is not meant to be a weapon to attack other systems and religions.

As long as there's no punching or kicking below the third chakra - I think its doable - all we need is a big venue and a large karmic purse.

Hi Marblehead, I am not actually a practicing Buddhist so I don't know why I feel compelled to comment on all this suffering stuff. But I can't help myself. The criticisms of the Buddhist view in Noble Truth 1 (in some ways better than the sequel NT2) that you offer miss the mark because the whole point is that it doesn't really have anything to do with the stuff you mention. For instance Buddha's dad may well have brought about suffering of people but unless those people had become Buddhas themselves they would have continued to suffer under defn. 3 'conditionality'. I think that we have a problem in the west because Christianity has filled out minds with nonsense about misery and sin and suffering (e.g. Albino Monk in da Vinci code) ... Buddhism is actually about finding out how to be happy. In fact I have in my hand a booklet called "Discovering the causes of Happiness" by Lama Jampa Thaye ... ok Buddhists have a view as to what those causes are ... and not everyone would agree with their analysis ... fair enough .. that's it... I'm too tired to write any more ... A.

Yes I do. I've lasted a week now and got used to just drinking tea. So I get some caffeine but its not the same. I miss coffee because its one of the things I really enjoy - and I'm not saying everyone needs to give it up or that its that bad - but the reason I did was that I drank some before meditating and I noticed the effect it was having on me. It was kind of speeding me up in a very unbalanced way. So for me it was the right thing to do. I am amazed at the reaction of my body - a week of headaches (some quite intense) so you have to want to do it. I agree about not wanting to be dependent - but them ain thing is I think ask yourself if its something you need to kick. Also if you have the right sort of control you can just limit it - but I find it easier to cut it out altogether.

Eat it? or rub it on?

With respect, this is a complete misunderstanding of what the 1st Noble Truth is saying. The 'suffering' or dhukka is not about misery and pain (although this might be part of it) it is about conditionality and the temporary nature of phenomena. It is stating a fundamental fact of existence and not a psychological attitude to pleasure and pain. The Buddha's motive in pointing this out was not to convey some kind of miserable outlook - but to explain to people that (as you say) attachment/desire leads to suffering AND this is not necessary. It is not necessary because enlightenment is possible and (in some schools) Buddha-nature is real. The basic Buddhist position is to wish everyone happiness and the causes of happiness/ and enlightenment and the causes of enlightenment. This is actually a cheerful outlook the practice of which makes you feel positive, optimistic and cheerful. This is because although samsara is seen as a cyclical world of suffering - it is illusory, it is based on not being able to see the true nature of things - seeing this, brings liberation (to put it simply). I am not by the way suggesting that Buddhism is superior to Taoism, far from it, both are profound and full of good and helpful things. Both have their particular view (not identical but not really contradictory either). Neither should be disrespected - although it is right to point out errors which might occur in either school of though of course.

Have one for me, King.

Obviously you have not seen me dance! Its a bad, bad thing ... and should be banned.

Lino, I am not sure I understand what is happening to you - and I am not going to give you advice because of this. All I can say is that I hope you work things out. It may sound trite but I don't think there are any unsolvable problems. Best wishes A.