Apech

I quite often have a mind with nothing in it.

https://iep.utm.edu/advaita-vedanta/ Advaita Vedānta is one version of Vedānta. Vedānta is nominally a school of Indian philosophy, although in reality it is a label for any hermeneutics that attempts to provide a consistent interpretation of the philosophy of the Upaniṣads or, more formally, the canonical summary of the Upaniṣads, Bādarāyaņa’s Brahma Sūtra. Advaita is often translated as “non-dualism” though it literally means “non-secondness.” Although Śaṅkara is regarded as the promoter of Advaita Vedānta as a distinct school of Indian philosophy, the origins of this school predate Śaṅkara. The existence of an Advaita tradition is acknowledged by Śaṅkara in his commentaries. The names of Upanṣadic teachers such as Yajñavalkya, Uddalaka, and Bādarāyaņa, the author of the Brahma Sūtra, could be considered as representing the thoughts of early Advaita. The essential philosophy of Advaita is an idealist monism, and is considered to be presented first in the Upaniṣads and consolidated in the Brahma Sūtra by this tradition. According to Advaita metaphysics, Brahman—the ultimate, transcendent and immanent God of the latter Vedas—appears as the world because of its creative energy (māyā). The world has no separate existence apart from Brahman. The experiencing self (jīva) and the transcendental self of the Universe (ātman) are in reality identical (both are Brahman), though the individual self seems different as space within a container seems different from space as such. These cardinal doctrines are represented in the anonymous verse “brahma satyam jagan mithya; jīvo brahmaiva na aparah” (Brahman is alone True, and this world of plurality is an error; the individual self is not different from Brahman). Plurality is experienced because of error in judgments (mithya) and ignorance (avidya). Knowledge of Brahman removes these errors and causes liberation from the cycle of transmigration and worldly bondage.

Thanks for the excellent resources @steve - I've skimmed a couple but these days I don't have the patience for this edgy science. What strikes me though in terms of the trumpian non-dual is that to say an entity (like a single cell organism for instance) is entirely interdependent with its environment is just a truism. Of course! Even the homeostasis of the cell depends on osmotic pressure between inside and out or on a different scale we all need to breathe air to live! Because we have dependencies doesn't say anything as far as I can tell about non-dual nature. I think this goes back to the 'everything is one' kind of thinking which is what you get if you google non-dualism. There's two things I can reflect on here. There is a state of self unification. As a being, ordinarily, I am many. Just as the physical body is a vast collection of entities, organs, cells, bacteria, viruses and so on. It operates however as a single entity - healthily - provided it doesn't go to war with itself or take in unassimilable entities from outside. However on a more psycho-spiritual level there is an inner integration where your being becomes whole ('If thine eye be single then your whole body will be filled with light'). What happens then (in my experience) is that a being unified in this way on regarding the outer vehicle (the objective world) sees unity reflected in it - 'as within so without'. But not in the sense of it all becoming an amorphous mass but more that there is a sense of recognition of this unity in all things. The other experience I can refer to, which might perhaps be what some call non-dual is that unity in the heart begets a kind of light and dark mixing (melding) and the sense then in terms of the outer vehicle is of a hollowness, almost as if everything is a 2D projection everything seems 'light' and interconnected - and perhaps as importantly purposeful - the sense that it is meant to be. It is not something to be probed or analysed but simply felt or intuited. Then you do get the feeling that 'it is as it is' and to accept. In Gampopa (Jewel Ornament of Liberation) these kind of experiences are described as a stopping off point or 'a rest' - not to be overly dwelt upon or given too much weight or significance.

Sulking now!

Hello techies, Is it just me or is the board acting a bit weird? I keep getting double posting events and also the notifications (little bell logo) repeat so I get multiple notifications that I've already had. Yours in peace, Loomy blob.

Ok thanks guys for your attention - it’s probably because I am using two devices.

it takes a sophisticated and refined intellect to grasp the meaning of the poetry of the non-dual.

is two too many the hearts clasp is non-jewel someone robbed my ring.

Gobbledegook.

I respect your refusal to accept non-dual gobbledegook. What I haven't seen on this thread is a satisfactory explanation of exactly what 'non-dual' means as everyone confuses it with 'oneness' which is much easier to understand. I tried to find a proper definition online and it wasn't there (or maybe buried on page 987 of google search). If someone upholds the reality of karma then everything that happens (except enlightenment perhaps) is karmic - so it is given that anything that crosses your path is karmic. We could then form the International Non-dual Federation of Light Blobs.

I have been logging on from my iPhone sometimes - so maybe using two devices is confusing the system.

Hey back off Nostrodamus!

Oh! Ad hominem (naughty). Do you long for iconoclasm?

is it just me or is board acting weird?

Luke, I'm not even going to ask how people you have tasted. But I love your analogy. Everyone else babbles about oneness. Have some oregano, rosemary and basil as a tribute.

Hi blob.

I wonder if some of this is the problem of talking about Atman at all (which the Buddha didn't do) in the sense that one get's the idea of a kind of non-human level of existence. The artist formerly known as @Bindi now known as 'luminous blob'. You can imagine after we are all enlightened the conversation 'hi blob have you met my friend luminous blob and look over there isn't that luminous blob?' i think this is the issue of the idea of being absorbed into the IT. I prefer the idea of reciprocity, like looking in a mirror we see ourselves in IT and IT sees itself in us. This is the meaning of the Egyptian poem I posted above somewhere. We might see ourselves more clearly when this happens but we don't stop being ourselves - we don't become luminous blobs. Thoughts as ever.

to me illusory just means that it is not what it appears to be.

Yes you can understand the consciousness of a star by consulting your inner wisdom. Especially if you view the cosmos as comprised of essences and not dead matter.

Map of roads in the Roman Empire

Utterance 269 376: To say the words: The fire is laid, the fire shines, the incense is placed on the fire, the incense shines. Your smell comes to Unas, O incense! The smell of Unas comes to you, O incense! 377: Your smell comes to Unas, O gods! The smell of Unas comes to you, O gods! May Unas be with you, O gods! May you be with Unas, O gods! May Unas live with you, O gods! May you live with Unas, O gods! 378: May Unas love you, O Gods! Love him, O Gods!

I googled (ok Qwanted because I boycott google and duckduckgo) non dualism and got this: https://www.qwant.com/?q=non+dualism&client=ext-chrome-sb&t=web I didn't feel that any of the top six actually understood non-dualism - all quote Advaita and so on - then talk about oneness. Which in my humble opinion is a side step. If non-dualism was just oneness then it would be called monism surely? The point about non-dualism is that you have through analysis or thorough examination reduced reality to a dualism. eg. subject and object - then by reflection realised the 'not twoness' of subject and object - not that they are the same but they are not different. For instance you look in the mirror and recognise yourself. Without the image in the mirror you would not see that it is you, but without yourself there would be no reflection. And yet you are not the image and the image is not you. This is my clumsy example - but it is closer to the non-dualist position than seemingly most.

I've tried snails and although they weren't too disgusting I couldn't get over the fact that they were snails.

‘Bundled’ ….