Apech

I'm not Britney Spears! Oh, baby, baby, how was I supposed to know?

Dragonfire, Discussing immortality is helpful. You are not responsible for negative comments, the people who make them are.

I think I agree that in a lot of cases taking vows is a form of clinging. But also if you say for instance that it is a natural outcome of buddha-nature to be generous. That although I have not realized buddha-nature I will try to reflect it by being generous and my way of doing this is to accept poverty - then it is a positive thing. But of course being generous really means being non-attached as a giver to the gift, the act of giving and the receiver. Its a form of letting go and not really about a vow as such.

Um - Haiku is 5,7,5 syllables. So maybe: No sin in my nose don't sniff that stuff anymore I'm not Britney Spears!

Immortality as the goal. (?) How do people understand this? For me immortality is principally the light-body. So by forming the light body - if you manage to achieve this you are beyond the cycle of birth and death - or rather you may consciously choose whether to incarnate or not. Beyond this is the transformation of the physical body. Whereby you go beyond even the need for repeated incarnations. The first stage of the diamond light body is achievable in one life time, the second is a very rare event. Both depend on realizing one's own nature. To do this is difficult and may involve celibacy to generate sufficient energy at key times - but there is no formula like celibacy = cultivation = immortality. It is about becoming aware of your true nature i.e. seeing it, then allowing it (i.e. the light) to suffuse and transform you. Beyond this are the transformation stages. For some, celibacy is appropriate but there are many instances of lay masters who are married and have children (e.g. in Tibetan Buddhism, Marpa the Translator, Milarepa's guru).

With respect the issue is attachment and clinging and not the vows as such. For instance if you take a vow of poverty in one life and practice generosity in giving away your possessions then you will be more likely to generate wealth (in the sense of having all you need to practice dharma) in a future life. If you read Gampopa's Jewel Ornament of Liberation you will see that the result is called a life of 'leisure and endowment' - meaning you are not trammeled by lack of time or lack of resources which prevents you practicing. However if you still act with greed because the vow was insincere then you will create the karmic seeds of this act. Similarly if you avoid sexual misconduct then your sexual centres will be purified. Also the layman vows and samaya vows do not include either poverty or chastity (see above).

Synaesthesia Is a unique mixture: Sin and aesthesia.

Yep see what you mean.

"Thus, as subtle forms, these vows continue on our mental continuums into future lives"

These are the refuge vows: 1. To refrain from taking life. 2. To refrain from taking that which is not freely given (stealing). 3. To refrain from sexual misconduct (improper sexual behavior). 4. To refrain from lying and deceiving. 5. To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness. not everyone takes 3 and 5 but everyone takes the others. Monks on the other hand have a longer set of vows. If a monk breaks his vows there is no going back. But other vows can be renewed. In addition there are the Bodhisattva vows Bodhisattva vows and the Tantric vows - samaya vows. Root tantric pledges Vows do not apply to just one lifetime as the following explains: "The promise to keep bodhisattva vows applies not only to this life, but also to each subsequent lifetime until enlightenment. Thus, as subtle forms, these vows continue on our mental continuums into future lives. If we have taken the vows in a previous lifetime, we do not lose them by unknowingly committing a full transgression now, unless we have taken them freshly during our current life. Retaking the vows for the first time in this life strengthens the momentum of our efforts toward enlightenment that has been growing ever since our first taking of them. Therefore, Mahayana masters emphasize the importance of dying with the bodhisattva vows intact and strong. Their abiding presence on our mental continuums continues building up positive force (merit) in future lives, even before we revitalize them by taking them again."

BTW if anyone wants to understand the Bodhisattva way I would suggest this book: The way of the Bodhisattva - Shantideva

Is this the vinaya vows and not the samaya vows?

Hi Darin, I read your other thread after I posted and I think I get it now. I left a message. I realize now you had a specific goal. I suppose it would be a cliche to say that there is no formula for success. You can follow any method and it may work but what really works is your own level of realization through the process. I don't really believe in methods in this sense because spirit is immediate, spontaneous and continually creative. But that's just me. If you don't mind me saying I don't think you should say or think 'I failed' because what we are all trying to do is very hard, the most difficult thing a human being can do. Its important not to get discouraged on the way because I believe it is possible. You made a valiant attempt I would guess and learned a whole lot of stuff in trying. That's not failure. Failure is giving up and welcoming despair as your ally. I don't know you but I don't think you have done that.

May I ask what was supposed to happen? I don't know this system that well.

Thanks SV - where's this from?

Ralis, Where have you read that Samaya vows are absolute? When I studied the vajrayana the teaching on the 14 Root Downfalls was that far from being absolute they can be 'repaired' by confession and also renewed by retaking them. In actual fact they were far from being absolute but were a way of safeguarding the relationship with the Lama within which the sadhana was supposed to work.

Branches, apples . green. Ears and trunks, elephants. gray. Paper. white. Sky. blue.

Be careful when flushing!

That's probably what Lobster Rampa and Blavastsky said too.

Thanks for this - a much more positive and healthy approach. All this talk of vampires and so on is generally quite negative. People who get into this kind of energy hungry mode are doubtless suffering and need compassion and healing. Otherwise if you don't feel you have the capacity to do this then just avoid or use simple protective methods.

Just to be clear, there are two ways of understanding the term Bodhisattva. The first is simply someone who has dedicated themselves to seeking enlightenment for the benefit of sentient beings but is not yet a Buddha. Taking the Bodhisattva vow is an integral part of all (or certainly most) vajrayana empowerments and initiations and denotes the aspirants wish to develop bodhicitta (or an awakened mind/compassion) to do this. The other way of using the term is to refer to realized beings who have attained to a level of consciousness beyond our ordinary consciousness. They have gone past the first stage or 'bhumi'. These beings are rare. If Max is recognised by the Nyingmapas as a tulku which is what you seem to be saying then he should have a certificate (I know this sounds a bit strange but that's how its done). Its not particularly unique because I believe Steven Seagal has been similarly recognised (no Oscar for his acting though!). In one way we could all call ourselves bodhisattvas as soon as we sign up for compassionately working to liberate others. In the other sense we cannot until we achieve a level of realization that is permanent and stabilized (i.e. not just an experience). This begs theb question then - is Max actually a Buddhist?

I didn't mean it was symbolic but that it is a tantra (i.e. a text/teaching) which uses sexual imagery/symbolism - the practices may include sexual yoga and so on.

Dzogchen or 'Great Perfection' is a teaching in the Nyingmapa school (Red Hat) of Tibetan Buddhism and deals with mediatating directly on the nature of the mind to reach realization. Mahamudra (Great Seal) is the equivalent teaching in the Kagyu (Black Hat) school which is the central non-dualist meditation on the nature of the mind. The difference in the two schools lies in the teaching process. In Dzogchen the student is introduced directly to the nature of the mind by the master followed by practices to stabalize the experience. Mahamudra develops the practice through preliminary practices and the experience of the nature of the mind is introduced at a later stage. This is the only difference. Karmamudra is about sexual symbolism within tantra.

Dipping body parts in a cocoa crisp coating bite me and enjoy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobsang_Rampa