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Welcome, This is a space for Dao Bums old and new to gather round the camp fire and talk about why we come here, what it means to us, where we are going and where we want to go. Sit a while and share your thoughts, all welcome in comradeship.

Is 'current events' still active? If so I would like access.

I've been pondering this quote for a day or two - and while at first it seems benign to have a leader who leads invisibly so to speak - this could also be a definition of a hidden elite, like for instance the deep state or the military industrial complex. We don't always know that they explicitly exist and very often don't know what they are up to - but they rule our lives ... and indeed when their work is done we think we did it ourselves. I am not saying all elites are evil by the way - or even a bad thing - I have actually come to the conclusion that they are inevitable. I think they are often 'natural' as they are self selecting depending on the sources of power in society.

I think the quick answer would be both. In terms of 'content' such as thoughts, memories, emotions etc. I think you would always endeavour to understand - which means ordering in the sense of putting them in good relation to each other, not to suppress but to illuminate. In terms of nature you would look to 'allow' or open to the free movement of spirit which might be called chaos in the sense that it is unlimited.

This is partly what I was posting about. I think 'order' - which essentially means put things in a row - is a fine word which we have been conditioned not to like. Especially since the second world war 'order' has become a dirty word - meaning something like oppression e.g. the Nazis wanted order but we want to be freeeee. When actually what the Nazis willed into being was heightened disorder and chaos. We even have phrases like New World Order which make the blood run cold. Why? Because we sense it will be more of the same faux order of some kind of ideological enforced code, which results in stresses and strains which break out into war and death. I didn't talk about chaos because I wanted to stress order. But actually order is supported by chaos. Der what? I hear you say. In the Egyptian world view, the world was structured as a kind of bubble. Earth below, sky arcing above supported by four pillars. The gods representing the structured world of order = ma'at were the Nine, the Ennead. The chaos gods were the Eight (the Ogdoad) - sometimes represented as frogs and water snakes - amphibians half in and half out of the water. The formula is 8 + 1 = 9. which means chaos plus unifying principle equals order. The unifying principle being 'itm' or 'completeness'. Ma'at or order (the daughter of the creative) is maintained within the structure of the cosmos and renewed continually by the interpenetrating forces of chaos. Or to put it another way the Logos was God and with God from the 'beginning' - meaning the creation of the cosmos which is God's temple - from the surface of the deep. You are expressing freedom as being antinomian. Yeah but 'Love' is the law. Law is an ordered relation isn't it? You are expressing freedom as authenticity which basically means you write your own book. But to write a book you need words - and words are ordering principles. In the beginning was the word again. A universe means literally 'one - turn' and is the created structured world. The purposeless, chaotic universe is in my view a myth created to beat us down and to destroy our morale, like an army faced with overwhelming odds. Yeah he said that - but it is patently not true. We are born unfree and limited, physically, mentally, socially and in everyway you can think of. As in India ur birth is jati - we have a fixed arc - but luckily it is possible to get the nirvana out. I agree with the spirit of what you are saying - and that our ability to assimilate and respond to the seemingly chaotic events is key. In stressing order as the road to freedom I am actually looking at how ordering our lives liberates us to be spiritually free, just as a great warrior lives an impeccable life according to a code of honour and faces eternity with a noble countenance.

Jesus Christ

The Psychic Week has been cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances.

"I've heard news, " said @dwai, as he walked into the clearing carrying an outboard motor. The others stared amazed. "Where did you get that?" asked @Bindi. "It matters little," answered @dwai mysteriously, "we must go North upstream." "Oh." they said in unison. "I have heard news," repeated @dwai ,"that @zerostao is in Hyperborean Thule with the reindeer shaman." "Is he in school, in Thule?" asked the cat poetically. They all looked at him in disgust. "He's been like this since you went," said @Nungali. Quickly they rigged up the motor to the Diamond Cutter and climbed aboard and turned the boat to the North and began their long journey to the snows and ice to the furthest lands. At the foot of great glacier they decamped and made their way through pine forest, always up, till the vast tundra stretched out before them.

Thank you everyone so far - that last post by @Taomeow was very nice (I thought you had gone ). Another aspect of order in one's life which I hesitate to mention because I fear it will be understood - is that one's order and discipline relies on obedience. I have been spending some time on medieval and feudal history and one thing that struck me time and time again, is that the heart of the hierarchy of feudal society relies on the relationship between people. That of fealty and love. Love in the sense that Shakespeare means it - not romantic love but a deep personal commitment to another. Nowadays kings are portrayed as tyrants (which of course some became) - but that state is an aberration. A true monarch works by inspiring love and trust in his (sometimes her) subjects. Today we have democracy and law. Our leaders lead us through a social contract and by statute. Sometimes we have leaders who evoke personal allegiance - but mostly not. In fact we despise most politicians even if we respect their skills. How different this is to the ideal relationship between ourselves and those who rule? I am not suggesting that we go back to feudal systems by the way - just remarking on how we have lost something - something with heart. In Tibetan Buddhism there is 'mo gu' to the guru/master. This is often translated as devotion but is probably closer to Shakespearian love. Indeed in most systems the master/student relationship is vital - even though devalued and distorted in these dark times of kali yuga. I know, I know - people can be and are exploited - so many cases. We have been trained I think, by the societies in which we live, to assess those to whom we give leadership through technocracy, clever verbal skills, image and a vague appeal to values. This I think, has distorted us. Hand in hand with 'order for freedom' is fealty and love for a master, teacher, guru etc. Replace 'no one tells me what to do' with surrender (?). (I hope I have expressed this adequately but I am struggling a little for the right words).

i was trying to say something much more simple - that the way towards freedom lies not in an individual doing what they want - but actually in establishing order in one's life. In fact I would say that in order to be able to release from identification it would be best pragmatically to order your life - rather than say seek the freedom to do whatever you want.

Life is reverse entropy - as energy is put in to order a system/body/being in some way. Just as life on earth is dependent on solar energy.

Well I'll take your word for it oh bodiless one. I suppose what I was getting at was that there can be a kind of abstract idea of the transcendental - to which some people wish to escape. But suppose you did - then you would have to find your way back to make sense of the actual - or it would be some kind of frozen death like state. It's a bit like some people say that you can experience or see consciousness and that's enough - when actually there's a whole other process.

This seems to me like order for order's sake - which is not really what I meant. Ordering objects like that is really just a categorisation process e.g. something blue, round, plastic etc. It is only an aesthetic and not really of any use. If you had a garden you could just dig it over and then randomly throw seeds in all directions and see what grows where. (actually I'd quite like that) but mostly people tend to plant in beds or rows so they know what is where. And that's not just about being neat and tidy - in terms of gardening its more efficient if you need to know how much water/fertilizer and wotnot to use and where. Same goes for shopping lists versus just walking down the supermarket aisles chucking whatever catches your eye into the trolley. My point is - order for freedom. Not order for the sake of order.

hi, Well yes you pulled me up on a point - but I was not trying to say there was no one at all Buddhist in India but rather that the monastic, scholastic and cultural entity of Buddhism ceased to be. There would have been Jews , Christians, Zoroastrians etc etc also actually living in India after 13 century also - but you would not say the country was Jewish or Christian would you. as regards Buddha being an avatar of Vishnu- I don’t think this is something he himself would have claimed so it seems like a form of ‘capture’ to me.