Apech

Before time was invented ....

Ohm.

Jesus H. Christ. https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/52191-what-are-your-traditions-safeguards-against-self-delusion-or-being-deluded-by-others/?do=findComment&comment=955505

I read Oak last time you recommended him. Let's leave it.

Without wanting to provoke any controversy ... there wasn't any 'Hinduism' at the time of the Buddha ... there was vedic Brahmanism which was quite different. Also can I make the point that most if not all of Buddhas criticism of Brahmin priests was that they were not being very good Brahmin priests - they had at that time 5th century BC become static and arrogant in their attitudes and relied on blood purity and not ethical purity.

Ok OK ... let's leave it. I can agree that Westerner scholars got it wrong ... and are still getting it wrong ... but then so are you. But I don't want to derail this thread (any more).

I don't know if you are being deliberately provocative but you are just perpetuating the western scholar narrative which you later criticise. Very doubtful dating not born out by any evidence apart from vague speculations about astronomical events.

What is this thread about again?

Nobody's perfect.

It's a big subject ... they have meditation approaches but that's not exactly what they are.

Me obviously

I think maybe you can add in a fourth way (which may be a subset of the third) which is direct realisation of the nature of Mind as in Dzogchen, Mahamudra, Lamdre ... and some non Buddhist ways too I guess.

... and the floor is no help - it just stares back at you

Buddha predicted this - that his dharma would last a finite time and slowly decline. We tend to think in terms of progress and things getting better over time, which is a kind of Christian concept - but in Buddhism it is a story of gradual decline and using stronger 'medicine' to get the same result. When the Buddha lived is mere presence would sometimes produce thousands of spontaneous awakenings - but now it takes eons through lifetimes according to the mahayana - but vajrayana techniques say one lifetime (but this is rare). I think the reason is simply that at certain times many beings have ripened karma which makes them ready for awakening - but as it is cyclical this fades over time. I would say tho' that Buddha taught 84,000 collections of dharma - that is his path was very broad incorporating what we now call mahayana and vajrayana - they weren't introduced later it is just that they became more important and were so emphasised more as time progressed.

Hi @Wilhelm, I practice Tibetan Buddhism. In this system enlightenment is defined in a variety of ways - 'seeing things as they really are', 'waking up', 'liberation from suffering' and so on. There are many great Lamas who have achieved realisations - but not a single one which I have encountered or listened to would claim enlightenment. This is not modesty - true enlightenment = buddhahood is vastly beyond anyone you are going to encounter. But that doesn't mean there are not great teachers out there. This can be somewhat confused by the vajrayana principle of regarding your teacher as a buddha (particularly in initiations and empowerments) - its a subtle distinction. To choose a Lama as a teacher you are supposed to go through a 12 years assessment (this is leapfrogged by a lot of stupid westerners) in which you can see if a ) they conduct themselves according to the dharma, b ) they have studied and have a high degree of understanding of the texts and c ) they have attained a level of realisation. They should really tick all three boxes but some teachers are very academic while others just have the basics in terms of (b) for instance. What over rides this is a karmic connection which is usually what sparks your interest in the first place.

I will post whatever comment I want subject to the site rules.

There are Pfizer shortages in Europe also - in fact the EU has been much slower to approve the vaccines. This is again because of over promising. the Moderna and Astrazenica versions should come on line soon - and although the Oxford/Astrazenica vaccine is less effective it is much cheaper, easier to manufacture and easier to store (normal refrigerator) and should distribute much more easily.

I'm sorry but that is false logic. person 'a' refusing to vaccinate does not cause person 'b' to die. In one country (I can't remember where) they have said that refusers have to self isolate and cannot travel and so on. So there are measures that can be taken to deal with this.

So called vaccine shortages are just the result of over-promising by governments who hyped up the vaccine - particularly in UK and US. For instance my parents 96 years old had an a ppointment for vaccination cancelled because they 'ran out'. It needs time and careful planning. For instance they could target areas to 'cocoon' the cluster out breaks but instead they just go for mass vax on demand to certain age and risk groups. It will work eventually but it will probably take 3 - 6 months.

You only need a high percentage of people to vaccinate - maybe 75% or something like that - as long as you get this there is no need to enforce compulsory vaccination especially on people who may have religious or ethical objections. Anything else would be authoritarian.

I think it's fair to say, and maybe @steve will confirm, that all vaccines and indeed many medical treatments have their own risks. We already know that there can be allergic reactions to the pfizer vaccine and so on. Generally I suppose we have to accept that we stand between two risky situations and have to evaluate which has the lesser risk and therefore is the best course of action. So I don't think we should react too extremely to these kinds of stories but I am sure the medics will determine why she died and inform their strategy accordingly. I don't particularly trust big pharma but I do instinctively trust doctors to do the right thing by us.

@steve Thank you steve.

Now ... I'm just trying to work out what you are saying here.

Happy bumming indeed.

Famished