Apech

Why not?

You thought you did eh?

Who says you need to empty your mind?

'the unhobbled half of its own equation?

Thank you - not sure I fully understand tho'.

What do we do with, or use our thoughts for?

That's close to what I was trying to get at!!! ... not you being dead, the first bit

Going back to my OP - can I restate my original question which hasn't been answered yet: "We have at least three types of cognition and therefore thought going on in our minds simultaneously, and with varying levels of energy. And if we are not trying to put a stop to this continuous process, then what are we trying to do?"

A very thoughtful kind of thoughtlessness

Sophistry???? Not sure I get your point here. How many Abrahamic philosophies are there? Or just not the focus of interest. Quite a lot was from the Theosophists - its amazing how influential Blavatsky and others were - especially as they seemed just to fabricate everything

I think I would put this a slightly different way. The Indian language/culture gives a very sophisticated basis for examining the mind and consciousness - and was developed over a long period of time. In fact it's arguable that it is this rather than the different schools of Vedanta, Buddhism, Jainism and so on which is the key. The disputes between these different religions or movements could in the context of Indian cultural development be seen as as being like two mathematicians disputing over whether geometry is superior to algebra - because they are arguing within a linguistic and cultural shared background. When they use terms differently there is still some ability to compare and contrast and reach understanding. The interesting thing is what happens when this is exported to new cultures - such as China and Tibet. In those days there seems to have been a recognition of something precious being handed on and the pains taken to make sure this act of translation was accurate but also held up against the standards of the recipient culture were immense. Including creating new scripts and sets of terms with proper definitions. In contrast when the various Indian traditions came to the West all we had were individual scholars and teachers providing their own interpretation - and often idiosyncratically heavily influenced by either not having proper training in Indian philosophy, or not fully understanding nuance in English. So you end up with a collection of loose and vague translated texts which loose their power and value. For some reason it seems that it has taken till now to get some rigorous scholarly examination of the systems and efforts to supply a new lexis in English to express them. It seems to me this is only now beginning. The whole enterprise has been muddled. I don't think that this is because English is a language which is incapable of being precise in this field - but simply that the work to make it so has not happened.

Emergency

Thanks for all the interesting replies so far. @Myogi mentions Patanjali's definition of yoga as being the cessation of mental disturbances – citta vritti and @Nungali mentions one-pointedness or concentration. In terms of yoga, I would suggest the nirodha of citta vritti is not a suppression or stopping up of thoughts but more an awareness of how they naturally evaporate of their own accord – because of course they are like waves in the sea or clouds in the sky – which rise and cease of naturally – and return to the 'base' which would be the field of citta itself. Something like that. But even that, while it describes a method of observing your mind in a helpful way to realise that there is a base and it is not just an inherently unstable flux doesn't explain why you are thinking and what the thoughts are for. I think that one-pointedness – or more simply right concentration – has part of the answer. But I don't necessarily see one-pointedness as being about fixing your mind on one thing. Or of excluding irrelevant thoughts to the subject – although this is of course a recognised technique. I see one-pointedness as being more about unifying your self (or your being) so that a level of coherence is achieved. A level of continuity between one moment of being and the next. This is not such a simple thing – although it might be simple. Unity, or one pointedness can be seen in many ways and have several outcomes or expressions. To illustrate this I'm going to draw from an Ancient Egyptian text which I studied recently (yes really ). In this there are four illustrations of unity which are located in different cardinal directions. The first is called Imy-wt, which means 'in the skin' and refers to the unity we have from being in a body – which is one thing. It has many parts – organs, cells and wot-not – but it is a unified organism with one purpose of maintaining life. The skin of our being might be physical, or it might be a subtle energy 'cocoon' and so on. But principally it is the same – unity from being in one skin. This is placed in the West. The second is called the 'Union of Two Souls' – we have two aspects to our selves, one is our substantial presense and the other is awareness or consciousness. Like oil and water they do not normally mix – so we have the duality of mind and body, or spirit and matter – and within ourselves we have a soul which is luminous, of consciousness and another which is of power, is dark and condenses to the material. Unity is to achieve the embrace of these two souls. This is the non-dual actuality which underlies our existence. This is placed in the North. The third is unity of the new born babe. It's called the perfect soul in the East. It is how new things, like babies, appear fresh and whole and somehow perfect. Perfectly full of energy and perfectly clear in sight and naturally joyous and blissful. You could think of this as an embryo – which is able to grow because it has achieved a core unity like the intent to become one thing. And lastly is the unity of the path of life itself. What causes us to exist, what energy makes us grow, do actions, get old and return on death – is a unity. A life-force which drives us and indeed drives time itself forward, with the unifying purpose of expressing its potential in as many beautiful and varied ways possible. This unity is placed in the South. I just mention this to illustrate what one-pointedness or unity might mean.

,,,snot.? Bless you.

What is your practice Forest?

Ah ok I have no idea about that system.

Depending on the definition of 'mind' (as this term is used in many different ways). Yes there are different categories of thought to be sure. We could say serial thoughts and conceptual thoughts for instance. I would argue that the refreshing comes from a separation between the observer and the observed and is not dependent on the cessation of thoughts. yes I was hoping someone would mention 'yogas citta vritti nirodha' . But I will comment on this later. Thanks for your interesting reply.

Can I ask where you got this from? It seems to mix the Yogacara eight-fold mind model with the three kayas - and equate them in a way which I'm not sure is entirely legitimate. For instance the Sambhogakaya means literally 'total enjoyment body' - but you describe it as pure cognition without feeling - not sure this adds up.

These are only my understandings so be advised. (!) Actually in an experiential sense imprints are stored in the body but in essence they are stored in mind (citta) itself. Alaya means something like 'possessing' consciousness and is actually an aspect of the nature of mind which has this quality of being a perfect recording material - like protoplasm - on which the records of experience can be imprinted. The usual analogy is that of fragrance - so for instance if you put a cloth in a drawer with a bottle of perfume after a few days the cloth smells of the perfume - even though the nature of the cloth has not changed. (this is an analogy only because obviously if you understand chemistry there has been an interaction). There are various forms of vipsana which include a body scan - but this is usually an exercise in looking for 'self' - to convince yourself it is not located somewhere. It's not that you comb the storehouse consciousness exactly - but more as your practice deepens you loosen the grip of waking analytic consciousness and manas (the self attaching consciousness) such that whatever is in the alaya sort of starts bubbling up. In Buddhism you just let these things come and go - but in some systems you might work on some of this recorded material to release energy from it - it depends on the school/system you are practising.

They arise from imprints in the alya-vijnana (storehouse consciousness) being triggered by events. The imprints are karmic 'seeds' which if negative arise from past events/experiences which comprised threats to the organism of some kind.

But of course.

Good evening Anand, Why are people depressed and anxious? What is the cause of this human condition? - Apech

I guess they go hand in hand - what do you think?

I'm with you - tho' I suppose you could argue about what 'exist' really means - but that's too abstract.