zhoupeng

In our hearts, no one would consciously want to be a coward. It makes us dislike ourselves for being helpless in a situation where we often wish we could have acted otherwise. But we must always ask ourselves what makes us feel like cowards, and whether or not it is a valid reason (to make one feel like a coward, not actually act it out and be one). I do not believe that avoiding a street fight is necessarily a good reason good reason for feeling like a coward, but that's just me. Forget Taoism for the moment and let's look at it from a different perspective: In each of the following steps of escalation, you had the choice to either a) Ignore him or tell him to Fuk off or walking away b Escalate the confrontation through insults and threats while getting angry c) Start Fighting 1) The guy came over and started insulting your friend. You didn't like this. 2) You decided get involved because he was disrespecting your friend. 3) You both get angry and start shouting and threatening each other. 4) The guy's friend comes over and he gets involved. As the sequence of events progresses from 1 to 4, it does not appear to me that if you had chosen to respond with choice a) at any point then you would have been a coward. Not that b or c) makes you a coward either, mind you. So you might want to think about what exactly you made you feel like you were going to a coward at that time. As for your question about violence, Iet's ignore the discussion about cowardice for now and revisit the same sequence of events outlined above. Obviously I am not advocating violence or street fighting but throwing outcome out of the window, at which points in steps 1) to 4) did you feel you should have chosen choice c)? Hit him when he started insulting your friend? Hit him only when both you and him have started insulting each other and gotten angry? Hit him when his friend decides to get involved? I am no security expert but maybe you should save the violence for when you and your friend really are in danger. And that quick, sudden violence is more of an effective solution than an attractive prospect. When it is time you just Act. Just like that. Solve the problem and get out. No more or less than is necessary. Make it clean. If the situation calls for it, Do it. None of us really need Choice b

Recently an incident occured in my office involving a co worker who had botched an assignment in which he was supposed to work with some clients. The boss screamed at him non stop for what seemed like ages with all sorts of personal attacks and the whole experience made him feel very bad. The reason for his poor performance was that he somehow unable to establish a good relationship with these clients and communicate with them well; it wasn't that he was not trying to do his job or that the clients were nasty people. This particular guy told me he often felt nervous and impatient when talking to clients, even when he knew the answers to their questions and theoretically understood, to minute detail, what exactly he need to do and say when meeting them. It was like there was some internal reason why he just couldn't execute his plan and the harder he tried, the more he came off as pushy, annoying and defensive- which just drives people away. At a loss, people were telling him to "Just Relax", "Have Patience and Be Polite", "Have Confidence", "Focus" and "JUST DO IT" but it is clear that this wasn't helping him. This is a recurring problem and has left him very despondent indeed. "I just feel like something is broken in my programming", he said. "I know what to do inside and out but I just can't do it, it's not a question of willpower as I have been struggling all my life and haven't given up but don't seem to get anywhere with it." When I heard him say this I came to the realisation that I too, suffer greatly from "broken programming". I could relate to exactly what he was trying to convey and I understood how helpless it must make him feel to see a lifelong weakness choke him out whenever he tries to get past it by pushing through it. It is like pushing some buttons on a TV remote control and not getting the intended response- the physical button is there and you can push it as hard as you want but something in the circuitry is not working properly and this prevents the device from performing as it should. With a remote control people will (if they resist the urge to hurl it in to a wall) either throw it away and get a replacement or ignore the problem. Very few will try to find out what is wrong with the circuitry and get it fixed. Are Humans like remote controls?? I will never be convinced that they are. But it seems that I am in the minority: in this and many cases that I have seen, most people just conclude that the person has a problem and will keep telling him: "Try Harder" "Keep pushing" "Just DO IT" and "RAAaaAArrRRGGGGHH!!!!" and when this approach does not bring immediate improvement, "You have a Problem" "You are just Flawed" "You are No Good at this" "Go somewhere else, we don't want someone like YOU" Is life really that Damning for people who have the misfortune to discover that they lack natural talent in some areas? Conventional wisdom based on the currently prevailing goal-oriented-results-driven-scientific-method paradigm would suggest it is. An awful lot of people seem so ready to dismiss any problem that cannot be solved by their conventional theoretic knowledge as a lost cause. I myself have many experiences with 'broken programming' and am sure practically everyone does too. But looking within and admitting these weaknesses is already hard for many people, let alone finding a way to work through them. The 'Try Harder' and "JUST DO IT" approach works for people who do not have a serious blockage in the particular field in question. Telling somene to try harder when it just is a matter of effort is common sense. But in my experience "broken programming" is beyond that. It is almost like some kind of internal/energetic blockage that causes abberant behaviour in certain circumstances; it can hardly be controlled through willpower alone and causes all sorts of problems. Has anyone experienced anything like this? If so, if you are comfortable about speaking about them, what do you feel would be a good way to deal with them besides "Try Harder" and "JUST DO IT"? I have picked up meditation and to some extent, religion again now that I feel that the phsical scientific method has its limitations. It is a shame that people should be driven to hopelessness over their current limitations. I feel that human potential is boundless and is there to be developed. We just need to go about it the right way. Any thoughts welcome. (And my apologies for the long post.)

This is an Excellent Post. Thank you very much for sharing!

If you want to do this properly it would be helpful to note that the three steps are not as simple as they may seem. Each of the three components need to be practiced and honed to fluency separately before they are integrated in one practice. Each one of the three components mentioned here are quite complex and in themselves include sub-components that also need to be trained. Here is an example: Abdominal Breathing - Proper and successful attainment has the following pre requisites that need to be developed: - Being able to Relax while you do it. - Maintaining concentration and a focused, peaceful mind for extended periods - Making the transition between inhale and exhale seamless - Lengthening the breath on both inhale and exhale without tensing or forcing it - Making the inhale and exhale equale in length - Developing it so that the above points all become second nature and can be done on auto-pilot all the time. Each one of the points can be further broken down in to even more steps. A simple practice is not so simple if one wants to dig deeper in search of mastery. The same analysis/breakdown can be applied to The Secret Smile and Microcosmic Orbit, which, by the way is a lot more complex than Abdominal breathing! I suppose if the three components are mastered in the manner outlined above before integrating them then the Kundalini Awakening will not be quite so brutal and painful. It will also take much longer than 90 days. ^^

Re: Aikido Aikido as it exists now is not internal. This can clearly be seen in its practitioners and in my opinion, is not up for debate. However, Ueshiba clearly had internal abilities that allowed him to manifest power and martial applications that went beyond the realm of the physical and this too is a fact. It should be noted though, that his abilities came from training in Daito Ryu and prior to his invention of Aikido. Daito Ryu is very much an internal art with japanese jujutsu as its basis and includes a whole regimen of solo training methods to develop the qi and whole body sensitivity/coordination that makes internal arts possible. If there are any Aikido practitioners out there who can demonstrate internal martial art qualities then they would have cross trained in other styles that have it. The Aikido training system by itself does not have these elements and there no way someone can get it from just doing Aikido alone. Re: Systema Systema is a very effective martial method, the training of which is centred on building efficient and coordinated use of the body in a framework of realistic fighting applications. This is the strength of the system and is based on the concepts of relaxation, natural body movement and sensitivity coupled with fine motor control of one's body. What makes Systema special is the method of teaching a person to integrate this quality of natural movement and sensitivity to real world fighting applications. This, I feel, is an area in which many traditional martial arts can learn from. As to whether Systema can be classified as internal, I would have to say that it depends upon the practitioner. The systema drills will develop a high degree of flexibility, coordination, sensitivity and body control and coupled with the proper relaxation, can simulate the FEEL of internal martial arts. Internal arts encompasses all these qualities but training in them alone does not necessarily make one's art internal. An example would be Scott Sonnon and his Rmax program. Clearly he is someone who took the above qualities to a very high level in his training (which has R.O.S.S as its basis) but I am sure we can agree that he is not 'internal' like Ueshiba was. That said, systema also has a breathing/meditation component to it which I know little about but may be the bridge to the internal qualities of that system. Vladimir Vasiliev has a book out explaining some of the basic breathing methods called "Let Every Breath". I have also heard that the high level russian systema practitioners have certain abilities that are absent in even the most experienced of the foreign (non russian) students. So perhaps they are holding back something for their own.

Excellent Point. Thank You.

Thanks for sharing your perspective regarding cats and power. I see what you mean and hopefully this can help me understand cats a little better.

I like your story because it is a very simple reduction of a complex topic that I find quite illuminating. Thanks for posting it. Using your example, this is what I found: When he starts out, (t=0) the man's goal is to be the strongest in the world. He has his training method that he is confident in (which is digging holes). He sets about his task with great determination and perseverence. I might add that he probably doesn't listen to anyone else and just focuses on what he is doing because in any society his training method will definitely draw attention and people will think he is crazy and start talking shit about how pointless/stupid it is. We do not know how he progresses for the next 14 years (t=1 to t=14). We do not know about his rate of progress, whether he felt some doubt about his purpose or whether he started doubting his methodology. We DO know that he has NOT changed his goal as for this duration he is still doing the same thing as he was when he started (t=0), otherwise he would have already stopped. We do know that after 15 years (t=15) he has achieved the goal he set out at t=0. We also know that he no longer cares, or rather no longer sees the importance of having attained that goal. BUT HE HAS ALREADY ATTAINED IT. HE WAS SUCCESSFUL IN WHAT HE SET OUT TO ACCOMPLISH. He attained it through - Having a clear idea about his goal - Having a good methodology that he is confident in - Maintaining diligence and perseverence no matter what - Not listening to those who do not share his goals and have no interest in his progress towards them - Just doing his thing until he no longer cares because he is far enough in his development that the original goal is not relevent anymore From t=0 to t=14 it was very important for him that he does. AT t=15 it is irrelevent, but that is taking in to consideration the fact that he has already put in the hard work and gone the distance. There is No Way this man is going to say his goal is irrelevant when he was at t=0, having done no training, and just starting out on his path. It follows that it make no sense to tell any man at t=0 that he shouldn't take the first step (and keep going) because by the time he gets to t=15 it is going to be irrelevent. It is almost a form of covert sabotage to make sure he doesn't set out in the first place and therefore ends up achieving Nothing. He has to walk that path himself. He has to Train And Persevere to reach his own goal And when he reaches it and finds its irrelevent, he makes a new goal for himself.

Thank you for the above paragraph. This is really good advice. I particularly appreciate your mention of the distinction between wimpy qigong and real qigong; in my experience too many practices are passed off as being 'real qigong' when their effectiveness in terms of raising the vibrational energy and even promoting health through qi flow is appallingly low. A good example is "Tai Cheeee Dance", which paying no attention to zhan zhuang, proper stances in transition, body alignments, breath/movement coordination and training of Yi is a horrendous waste of time. The same can be said of similar diluted/corrupted practices that have their internal mind/body components and instructions thoroughly gutted out before being supplied sold to the public. Like an empty desktop case with all the hardware gutted out sold off as a real computer or pharmaceutical products that contain no active ingredients. The same can also be said of meditation practices that only tell you to 'just sit there' and 'be patient' without giving you the proper instructions on how to train your mind to achieve the meditation state (Wu Wei) that is supposed to be the object of the exercise. Doing a lifetime of these practices will get you nowhere in your training. It will only make you more frustrated and disillusioned with your development. I agree completely that anyone seeking power or anything else for that matter should be mindful of choosing their practices carefully.

It is funny you brought this up, I have recently had someone leave her cat with me to look after while she went away for a holiday. I have always liked cats and find it an interesting experience to have one as a roommate. However I don't know how much of an 'energy master' this particular cat is though, I find that more than anything, taking care of a cat is an exercise in patience and observation. Over the past week I learnt that a cat will only live in a way that is natural for it, the way it was created to do by Nature. Living with a cat means understanding this and establishing a working relationship with these principles while at the same time maintaining harmony between myself, the cat, and the environment (in this case my room, more specifically making sure the cat does not wreck my room). I know that this can apply to all animals but cats in particular are true to their original nature. While I see this whole matter as a training opportunity, I do not particularly feel that the cat is 'an example of power'. Maybe it is just this particular cat, or there is another angle from which I haven't yet looked at the matter. As someone who also likes cats, would you care to elaborate on how cats relate to power? Anyone else on this forum who likes cats (and theres seems to be quite a few ^^), please feel free to give us your angle too!!

Before anyone starts talking about someone else's ego, please do everyone a favour and take a minute to examine yourself. There. To anyone reading this, let's play a game: lets go through this thread and read all the posts that purport to give some sort of 'advice' and play 'Spot The Ego' . Pay special attention to use of punctuation and tone of expression. Try to guess what the person's facial expression behind the computer screen is like when he is writing it. Is the writer feeling interested in the topic of discussion, got a chip on his shoulder, trying to prove something, or just trying his genuine best to help others? Personally I find it distasteful to talk down to others if clearly you have the same problem. Hypocrisy does not have a high rate of success when you want to persuade others to see things as you do.

Thanks for this, I guess I can see now why many people have not experienced it. They need to let go of the desire to control! ^^

This is correct and is a very good point. People pursue power because they feel powerless and in fear. And they Should do so. Being honest with yourself is definitely good advice for everyone; it is only then that one learns to work correct one's weaknesses and in doing so gain power. The path of the renunciate should be respected as should the path of power. I am glad you wrote this. We are all stuck here. Better make something out of it, no?

I would like to thank Mike for putting in the time and effort to provide a detailed description of his system. I also thank Vortex for kindly sharing it with us, I for one really appreciate it!

The first time I heard a detailed explanation of yin qi was when I read 'The Magus of Java' by Kosta Danaos. While I can say that previously I was not aware of the distinction in quality between yin and yang qi, I was not aware of mo pai and its definitions of qi either. From what I read here and on the other threads in this forum it seems that many people are using the same terminology to describe different things. For example some people see yin qi as the yuan qi or original pre-birth qi in the body (which relative to the post-birth qi is yin), and others have been talking about absorbing qi from the earth (the earth's qi being yin relative to that of the sky/heavens), and still others see yin qi as a method of expression ie. the roll back energy of taijiquan (which is yin relative to the expanding energy of taijiquan). These are all valid and very good observations from which we can all learn a lot, not just about qi, but also about how others see,interpret and use qi. One thing that I would like to bring up is specifically concerned with the mo pai definition of yin qi; has anyone actually worked with this themselves? Is it something that is in the body already and needs to be trained just like 'regular qi'? Why is it that in mo pai they say that merging yin and yang qi is so dangerous? Is this process something that is unatural? Any help from someone who has worked with similar practices in clarifying this would be appreciated, Thanks!

I was not going to post this but seeing how this discussion is going I would like to remind certain people that everyone has their own path. This is determined by many things, but personal choice is one of the most important ones. People see different things as important to them at various points in time and this can change depending on their experiences. We each need to explore what we choose to explore in order to progress. It is a matter of individual choice and it should be, as ultimately everyone is responsible for themselves. With regards to the direction of their own personal development each person is a sovereign and this should be respected. On the other hand, imposing one's values and priorities on the someone else's chosen path according to what one believes will be good for them is not cool. If there is something you don't agree with that someone else is pursuing but it doesn't affect you or cause you any harm, then please just let it go. There are better uses for your time. Just do what you think is good for you and just let other people seek their Truth.

I just love these statements. Truer words were never spoken. Thank You for posting this. (and body! ^^) Thanks again for reminding us that we are ultimately the ones who are responsible for our own ascension. There are many who will help us, as well as many who will try to stop us. Good Luck Everyone!!

Disregarding the external circumstances in the cartoon, can you see the expression on that dude's face? Why don't you try out KAP for yourself and stick to the program for a year or two- perhaps you will understand why he has that expression and is so optimistic about selling his coconuts.

Franz Bardon's system is very cool. It is probably the most systematic and integrated approach to western magick that anyone has ever come up with. But this strength is also its weakness; in being so structured and encyclopedic it has a tendency to be overwhelm people who are not already very experienced in the field - a bit like picking up a university textbook on something you know very little about. The best advice I can give for this is to read the text (Initiation in to Hermetics, not the other two) through from front to back a few times in a very chilled out state of mind without rushing or purposefully straining to commit anything to memory. This is to attune yourself to the material and develop a feel for the system. It should take a few months but don't worry, just consider it a part of your practice and aim to get a broad understanding of the system and how it is supposed to progress. After that, then begin with the mindfulness meditation in chapter one. The good news is: it is very similar to the Zen meditation you are already doing!! ^^ * I might add that for those who are more theurgically inclined, you can begin every practice session with a short mental dedication to Franz Bardon, thanking him for sharing his knowledge with people like us and asking him nicely to help guide you in the practice you are about to begin. Then thank him again afterwards when you are finished. I can assure you that there is no lack of methods out there and publically available. It is just that the real and usefultraining methods are downright boring and make absolutely no promises about achieving anything special. Being disease-free and having nice and flexible joints doesn't sound as sexy as being able to move stuff with your mind; it's just different packaging, that's all! ^^ To use my rpg analogy: Running around killing monsters and picking up health items in order to level up is tedious and a bitch. But I have never seen that never stop the serious gamer because the late game abilities and items are Worth It. Besides, if you don't progress in the game you won't get to see the later stages and all the storyline and quests that go with it Methods can be eastern or western or shamanic or some kind of mixture. They all have their own purpose and if looked at objectively they can be pretty cool to experiment with because you can see them as tools designed for specific functions. It just so happens that due to cultural reasons eastern systems tend to emphasize health whilst western magick emphasizes creating and effecting phenomena. That's just the beginning but you really need both to be complete. Discard the ones that don't work for you or don't fit your objectives and keep the ones that do. When you have become more experienced you can make your own methods -like making your own workout schedule in the gym, where a bodybuilder's workout will differ radically from that of trialthele. I will close with something you can try: If you want to build a sigil using Chaos magick, try first doing some Zen meditation with some deep abdominal breathing to get in to a qigong/emptiness state of mind. Relax and do not Strain. Then focus on the paradigm of your choice and create your sigil with the energy that you have just built up and imbue it with a purpose fuelled by the focus you have just achieved from the meditation. Feel the sigil come in to being and let it do it's thing ^^

This is fun! Here is my result: Wood 4, Water 28, Fire 9, Metal 18, Earth 12 Edit: Upon closer observation it seems that due to this being a taoist discussion website there seems to be a clear predominance of water in people's results. I find this quite amusing ^^

Thank You very much for deciding to do so; I too hold this topic very close to my heart and am very glad to see others come forward and discuss this in the spirit of openness and without undue prejudice. I believe that is because there are many methods to achieve the same type of things, they depend on the individual- some methods work better for certain whilst others don't seem to work at all. In my experience it is very important to constantly experiment to find methods or paradigms that resonate with you and enable you to progress in an enjoyable manner (as opposed to making you more stressed and frustrated - think cramming for exams). Persistent practice while maintaining a certain joy in what you do is the surest way towards achieving any human endeavour. In this respect I heartily recommend that you continue to pursue and research Chaos Magick. Having done so myself, its doctrine of the paradigm shift has helped me immensely in letting go of preconceived notions and reservations towards certain practices and ways of thinking that turned out to be very useful. From my experience I find that specific abilities are more often than not the fruit of holistic practices that raise your general energetic level as a whole. Many qigong masters, yogis, meditators and religious people experience these phenomena due to the amount and time of practice they put in. When the abilities start becoming available (think - attaining a new 'class skill' when you level up in an rpg game) it is then possible to devote more time to working with a specific ability to hone your proficiency; however, this can only be done when you have already accessed the basic 'class skill' otherwise you will have nothing to build upon. While there are numerous resources on how to develop clairvoyance or telepathy, the reason why their rate of success is not high is, in my opinion, mainly because they focus exclusively on the second step of honing proficiency, making the assumption that the ability is already available, which in the case of the average person, they are usually not. These books and programs often miss out or downplay the importance of the basic training practices such as: - meditation and focusing intent - maintaining a healthy energy flow in the body - getting the nervous system and muscles to learn to relax - basic physical practices such as stretching or yoga asanas coupled with breathing excercises to teach you to feel your body - training you to recognize and control your emotions and natural impulses These elements are very general fundamental guidelines that should be part of any system that aims at real results, in my opinion. They are not exciting, but without them the foundation for special abilities is impossible to build. Without the foundation, any specific practice simply wouldn't work, or even if it does, it will be flawed due to the user not having achieved the prerequisite general level energetic/mental training. There are many stories of people skipping out of the foundational methods and forcing themselves to train something like telepathy, and even getting some results, but quickly end up losing their power and being physically and energetically damaged in the process through forcefully running too high a current through a system that cannot take it. Like you wrote in a previous thread, abilities are very much like shooting three pointers in basketball. I find that some people are naturally gifted at it, but everyone can train to improve their level given the right methods, and not everyone's three point shot will look the same technically or in terms of velocity, angle or arc. I would just like to add that you have to first learn how to play basketball.

GO ahead and try it out for yourself; it's the only way you will know ^^

Has anyone heard of Kunlun (no relation to Max Christensen) Da Yan Wild Goose Qigong? It is the system taught by master Yang Meiun before she passed away. It is a really good comprehensive systemt that integrates health qigong with meditation excercises as well as pseudo martial arts applications in the later levels. I definitely recommend it for anyone who hasn't tried it to check it out, it takes a long time to for one practice session but leaves you feeling very spritely and very clear mentally.

Thailand, and the neighbouring southeast asian countries for that matter, are known to have ascetics and hermits practicing their path of spirituality in remote forest/mountain areas. In Thailand specifically these are either Buddhist Monks or Brahman Yogis, who are called Rhe Sri in the local language. Some of them have been known to have spiritual powers. These people avoid the public eye and do not generally speak to anyone, let alone teach, let alone teach a foreigner. Being hermits, they are also uninterested in money and communications technology. They most probably do not speak english either. Given this lifestyle most of their teaching is likely to be oral tradition or teachings from non physical sources. Finding them will be very difficult and convincing one to take you on as a student will be a herculean task requiring nothing less than moving to Thailand, learning the language, and commiting to a long term hermit lifestyle yourself. Please do not let this stop you if that is what you want to do. On a different note, other than the hermits there are other occult practitioners who practice various forms of local witchcraft/demonology/necromancy with pseudo buddhist overtones. They may be somewhat more easy to locate but bear in mind that they do not generally make spiritual development their goal. There you go, hope that helps. ^^

HAHAHAHAHA. That made me laugh so hard people started staring.