zhoupeng

I haven't heard of anyone doing so, but I would hazard a guess that if such a process is possible the process wouldn't be very stable and the body would have to be very recently dead and with no physical damage. Swami Rama's master may have done that as a demonstration to teach his students, but would most likely not think of using such a process to extend his physical life artificially since someone who is capable of doing something like that would not need to.

Mo Pai is a unique case in a lot of ways; it is perhaps the first time an accomplished practitioner has stepped forwards and allowed his abilities to be documented in public. While John Chang's decision to do this is his own, it does have wide ranging repercussions on a lot of people, as discussions on this site are clearly proving. Firstly, it led many people (especially internal martial artists) to examine their own practices to see whether they were actually legitimate as what we see John Chang do is simply not common in humans. Secondly it inspired many to seek out training to achieve the same abilities; this is a perfectly normal human reaction and when we look around us we can see that people who are successful in sports or business are almost always de facto role models for others who aspire to similar goals. Aspiring to achieve what you want in order to improve yourself is not shameful either and no one needs to be shy about it. But then there is the curveball: John Chang is no longer teaching. Again, his reasons for this are his own and it is no business of anyone else's to demand that he does. The fact that John Chang is not teaching is not going to dampen the enthusiasm of those who seek the same type of training, however. It is clear that there are other highly achieved practitioners in the world who are capable of similar feats, but it is just that they do not have the same publicity. They might also be uninterested in teaching. But this is not going to stop dedicated people from seeking training. The difference between a consumer and a seeker is vast- a consumer will only buy what is available on the market, a true seeker will go to the ends of the earth and will do what is required to obtain the object of his Quest. Rare and specialised training is way for a reason: sometimes it just can't be bought with money at a store or a seminar. It often has specific requirements from aspiring trainees that aren't public knowledge but nevertheless need to be fulfilled for the aspirant to be considered for training. If someone is completely sure that a certain teaching is what they want, then they have got to be willing to give anything to get the required information, work on themselves so that they fulfill those requirements in order to be considered for eligibilty, and keep searching for a master. The path is not clear but that doesn't mean the first step isn't. Here is a suggestion for a good first step: DO NOT listen to any jealous haters or faceless internet goons who say whatever it is you want to do with your life is impossible, wrong, illogical, dangerous, for "low level people", not teh Point, bad for your ego, not Your Destiny (how do they know anyway?) etc. Also don't waste your time arguing with them because that isn't the point either. Instead: Just put your headphones on, play your favourite music, grin broadly, and Walk the Path of Your own Choosing with endless determination and optimism. Good Luck to Everyone.

First let me just say that I think it is a great idea to make a wiki about taoist practices as the information has always been scattered and was never really systematized in a formal way. Every practitioner seems to have his own focus and you will find people calling themselves taoists who practice all sorts of very different things. It would be really nice if we could get the people here to contribute by writing something about their practices in the wiki so as to create a form of documentation of the spectrum of taoist practices inclusive of the different traditions represented. Having said that, I do recognise that it is a momentuous task given the sheer volume of the material and the tendency for taoist practices to be somewhat holistic: for example Nei Dan can, and usually does incorporate many of the elements you listed for many practitioners. Good luck anyway and I keep following this thread to see what we can come up with!

I was just reading the John Chang and Mo Pai threads and it seems that the man has remarkable achievements and he was not shy about them either. It also seems that some people believe that special abilities should not be flaunted or used for one's personal benefit whilst others see no problem with this and make it the goal of their practice. Is there a problem with the Pursuit of Power and Abilities? How is training to be a seer different from learning a new skill like a new language, molecular gastronomy cooking or stock investing? These are also skillsets that are handy in the modern world and help one get ahead in life. Does the fact that the clairvoyance skill is less mainstream than language learning or stock investing make it less legitimate as personal practice? Why is it that when we encounter someone who is doing a degree in engineering in order to get himself a higher paying job we don't feel that there is anything wrong with it but when someone makes a statement like: "I want to be like John Chang and will train to get the same abilities" he will get all sorts of negative reactions from people. These range from: - Abilities is not teh Point. - The training is dangerous - Do not be greedy for personal empowerment - All sorts of personal attacks regarding his wisdom, methodology and even DESTINY!!! (jeez) Should abilities not be treated in the same bracket as standard skillsets? Is there a qualitative difference in the following statements? - I want to be a rich man and own a large corporation - I want to be confident when talking to members of the opposite sex - I want to be healthy physically and mentally - I want to win a noble prize through work in my chosen field - I want to train to have special abilities that I was not born with. - I want to work my hardest to make my Destiny what I want it to be. Does the fact that people WANT things mean they have a problem? Where do we draw the line on what is 'legitimate' human endeavour and what is plain greed? All comments welcome.

Logically speaking, I cannot imagine why someone would want to feed an internal demon if he wishes to be rid of it. Change in lifestyle, people you associate with, diet and emptiness meditation would be methods I would choose. This is in theory of course, demons are hard to get rid of, even when we recognise they are there and the control they have over us. Ask any alcoholic, drug addict, compulsive liar or perpetually bad tempered corporate types about the shortcomings of their character and provided they are not lying (difficult for the compulsive liar!), will give you a whole list of them. Solving these problems in a lasting way is a whole different kettle of fish. Feeding these bad habits is what they do every day regardless of whether it is 'purposeful'. It doesnt' help them. Encouraging others who have a problem to feed their demons until they 'explode' or experience a breakdown is a rather sadistic experiment in exploring the limits of human suffering and should not be mistaken for genuine help.

I have always thought that clip was highly amusing. Every time I think of it I would wonder what on earth would give the man such confidence in his 'esoteric' ability as to go and put up a challenge to an mma fighter. Having been involved in martial arts myself I am no stranger to people who are deluded about their own abilities, but this was the first time I had seen one for whom these abilities were not of the physical kind. That said, thanks for pointing out that the reason for his failure was because he practiced only with students who had purposely attuned themselves to his energy and are not resisting when he demonstrates on them. I pondered that issue for some time and for a while I just thought the students were falling down on purpose as an act to fool the ignorant. I suppose this can be a reminder to us that whatever abilities we choose to develop we should work towards the goal of getting it to level of competency where it will work in ANY situation, including hostile ones.

Don't worry. Humans will and have always been finding reasons to get upset at each other all the time; this is not going to change despite anyone's wishful thinking. It was a period of conflict for both yourself and the girl because there were underlying issues that could not or were not resolved earlier and this culminated in her feeling that she needed to leave. Maybe she does need to leave? Don't worry about her now. Just focus on yourself and find out why you did/said the things you did; if you find something that needs correcting, go ahead and do so. If not, all the more reason not to worry!! ^^ Go out and just get on with your life in a manner that makes you smile in a genuine way at nothing in particular.

Between the two, I would say Knowledge as Problematic. Our understanding of the Tao is subjective and different for each person (that's why we have forums such as this!). If everyone had a uniformly perfect understanding of objective reality there would be no need for anyone to discuss anything, ever. We wouldn't be humans either.

Hi, Thanks for posting on this topic; I was hoping to get someone with a standpoint like yours to participate in this debate. Mundane skills can feed the ego too. Many people get massive ego trips by thinking they are richer, stronger, have more success with women, are better at basketball, are better at computers etc. than others. While I feel that indulging the ego is bad in all shapes and forms, I don't hear anyone saying people shouldn't attempt to get rich or train hard in playing basketball. Just as there are people such as Warren Buffett who pursue money and do not have the same ego as most wall street fat cats, can there not be people who train for special abilities who do not have such an ego? Why is the intent to develop abilities immediately "bad"? I see what you mean here, but what is the problem when right now humans still live at this 'level' and the abilities are still very much relevent? Many years ago people used floppy disks and film cameras; nowadays hardly anyone uses them anymore as we have memory sticks and digital cameras. But in their day they were most definitely relevent and the companies who sold them made a lot of money.When an better alternative energy source is found for oil then oil will lose its meaning, but for now OPEC makes a killing exporting oil. If everyone in the world is born with the ability of telekinesis I agree that it would be irrelevent to go seeking it, but we haven't got to that stage yet so why shouldn't someone put in the effort to train it? Regarding your example of the child burping loudly, would it matter to the child if some 'adults' thought what he was doing is irrelevent or valuable to only "lower people"? In the child's world, his subjective reality, being able to burp loudly probably makes him cool. He has his friends in the playground may hold contests over who can burp the loudest. Because he wants to win, he will train to burp loudly. Winning in such a contest means nothing to adults, and is in fact rather silly, but it might mean a lot for the child. Furthermore, who is going to go and tell the child not to train to burp loudly? Maybe his parents will do so because it is annoying and is rude in public, but who is going to tell the child that burping loudly is for "lower people" and that he shouldn't feed his ego by trying to win burping competitions with his friends in the playground? Would the child listen or understand? Now let's substitute the words "child", "burping loudly" and "adult" in the above two paragraphs with "entrepreneurs", "making money", and "higher level beings without physical form" respectively. If you are the child, or the entrepreneur, why wouldn't you want to burp loudly or make money? It is the most relevent thing for your current state of existence. If we are all "higher level beings without physical form" then pursuit of special abilities will be irrelevent, but alas, we as a species, are not. Can you please explain what these differences consist of? (Other than being in a different dimension) What do you mean by higher and lower dimensions? Can you please explain? How does one get to a higher dimension?

This exercise is a form of zhan zhuang, or standing stance training. They work to develop one's root to the ground as well as internal force. This particular posture emphasises the connection we have between the heavens/stars/cosmos and the earth through the body's main channels. It also works to make us more sensitive and efficient in absorbing this energy. Zhan zhuang exercises and qi gong, when practiced correctly, will build physical and mental health as well as increasing your qi. I personally find these benefits to be useful. I do not know about the group you used to practice with, but if someone tells me to do any sort of energy work for as long as possible I would take it to mean gradually building up the maximum time through regular practice and not as pushing to 100% every time I practice. Energy work and meditation is very different from body building. You are not supposed to push yourself to failure.

Funnily enough, this exercise probably could do that for you if practiced correctly and consistently over a long period. Have a look at the link by the original poster; in the instructions specific mention was made of not treating it as an endurance exercise- namely, if your arms feel tired then just drop them to maintain a state of relaxation. Have a go and try the exercise again this way! I am sure you will feel differently about it. Not specifically this one, but many very similar to it. There are numerous common practices in a great number of traditions, any cultish bullshit aside, and if pursued for their practical benefits, they can be very useful and practical tools for us to work with.

It's wonderful how some of the most effective practices are also the least complicated.

Can you please explain a bit more about what you mean by this? I have read Kosta's book and many posts about Mo Pai; I am not sure how this relates to 'the dark side' as I get the impression that Sifu Chang and the Mo Pai tradition stresses moral development and karma awareness just as much a development practices.

Thank you very much for sharing this; your kindness is much appreciated.

I have some experience with Wong Kiew Kit's spontaneous qigong practices and when I saw this I thought I would chip in. Firstly, I have not attended his seminars but the practice as described in his instructionals is nothing like the Kunlun exercises. The technology used to achieve a spontaneous state is arrived at via regular moving or still qigong practices that get the qi flowing in the body. This is caused by relaxing, maintaining postural requirements, regulating the mind and breathing and NOT by some outside force. After sufficient Qi flow is generated in the body through these Qigong in a session, the next step is to relax in to it further and consciously allow the qi to move your body wherever it will in order that it will help you overcome your blockages. So you will end up swaying about, stumbling around, contorting your body and making noises with your breathing while in this 'spontaneous' state as your body works with its own Qi to break down the areas that are blocked. You are 100% conscious throughout and completely aware of what you are doing. You also have the ability to retain control and stop at any time. After practice I felt relaxed and fresh, not the least bit drained. To be honest I was quite shocked that Wong Kiew Kit's name was mentioned as when I first read about the 'practice X' in the original post I thought it was highly disturbing and couldn't for the life of me link it to anything I have experienced with Wong Kiew Kit's material. I am sure there must be some misunderstanding here.

I have to agree that in order to learn xingyiquan you need to find a good teacher who will teach you in person. This is unfortunate but at least it will prevent you from commiting yourself to incorrect practice, which can be harmful, let alone ineffective. In terms of your current situation I can propose a temporary solution: get Sun Lutang's book on the subject and look at only the first section about how to stand in San Ti Stance. Don't worry about the rest for now. Follow those detailed instructions and make it a regular practice, building up to longer periods over time while continuing to train in your taijiquan. Pay attention to some of the postural alignments you are taught in taijiquan while doing this (Sun Lutang's xingyi is a Hebei style which shares many basic requirements with taijiquan). The San Ti stance is martial by nature and is a true treasure of this style; aside from developing root and internal strength it is designed to train the intent (Yi). This will help you gradually shift from your current mindset and predispositions to one where you are not hesitant to strike when the situation is appropriate. Give it a go for a few months and you will definitely feel a difference!

For simply building up the quantity Qi I believe Zhan Zhuang is the way to go. However other practices such as Qigong and Yoga can also help by regulating and unblocking channels in the body by inducing Qi flow. Qi flow, when it happens correctly will, apart from promoting health, also help facilitate and smoothen circulation within the body- leading to a gradual increase in the capacity to circulate and store higher concentrations of Qi in subsequent practice sessions. At the same time we can help by regulating the quality of Qi by maintaining a healthy lifestyle and being mindful of our intake of food, drinks, air, emotions, thoughts etc. Getting enough sleep and eating and sleeping on time is also very important. This is facet many of us tend to overlook in the modern world; it is very hard to put in practice when you have a job and live in a big city. Raising the quality of Qi in yourself will make your body and mind more 'clean' and thus, more ready to accumulate greater amounts of Qi and circulate it. Someone with a high concentration of Qi will stand out in some way or other in the company of those in whom Qi is relatively lacking. This is quite a natural side effect and will happen unless the person in question makes a conscious effort to 'hide' his presence by appearing unremarkable. Yi can be trained to be very focused by everyone, and it is all the more intense (and remarkable) if the person also has alot of Qi!

Hi Everyone, I have seen this term come up quite often in discussions revolving around the safety of certain practice methods and the readiness a person is for attempting certain exercises. In terms of the latter, my question is what exactly does this mean? As someone who is in to internal martial arts when I see the word I immediately think of someone doing alot of Zhan Zhuang (standing stance practice). Does 'grounded' specifically mean 'rooted' in the sense of martial arts? Or does it mean having a lot of Qi? Or being capable of a high level of concentration for prolonged periods? Or having good physical health? What would make a person sufficiently 'grounded' to attempt something safely? Any help would be appreciated, Thanks!!

Thanks everyone for your replies, it has been really helpful for me to know that while everyone is approaching it from different angles, it is clear that we are all looking more or less in the same direction. It is nice to see that the concept of grounding can be taken in a physical, mental and psychological sense; now I will try to incorporate these angles to make my practices more holistic ^^ Does anyone know of a person you would describe as being very grounded? How does an encounter/interaction with such a person feel? Do they leave any impressions?

Sorry I know this is not my business, but from personal experience I would seriously caution against forcing yourself to forgive anything (including yourself). Forgiveness comes from patience and gradual understanding of the often more subtle causes and effects that led to the event which left you feeling wronged. Only then can you come to terms with the issues in question. Forcing yourself to forgive not only leads to a corresponding forced collision with the pain you have experienced but is also the the spiritual equivalent of grinding your teeth behind a smile. Unfortunately this usually creates even more deeply rooted blockages.

Hi everyone, This forum has been one of my favourite websites for more than a year now as I really enjoy reading the discussions here. Usually I am just happy doing that, but I suppose it is going to be more fun to get involved; therefore I figured I might as well post a shoret introduction. About me: I would like to consider myself taoist, although I must admit in pratical terms I have just started on the path. In terms of practice my main area of interest is in exercises that involve working with the physical body such as internal martial arts and qigong. Aside from this I also enjoy discussions concerning religion, philosophy and occultism. Nice to meet you all and Have a Good Day ^^

Thanks for the welcome, guys!