NeutralWire

I think the mixing of sexual energy is important in terms of feeling the full range of loving feelings and being touched -- although more important for some than for others, this is a big part of the healing effect. Reservation is important from the male side IMO, but the 'deviance and impurities' are simply strands of humanity waiting to be transformed, if both are prepared. Vitally important to think about who one is doing this with of course! NW

IMO sexual energy and expression is extremely important to health and enlightenment. It is on a par with eating and breathing as one of the major physical bodily functions, and like those others, spiritual practitioners may want to practice more healthy forms of it than the general ones -- disciplining it, deepening it, and perhaps experimenting with stopping it altogether sometimes, happens with all three of these. Based on my experiments with some fairly simple karezza ideas, the right kind of sex makes as important a difference in the quality of one's life as the right kinds of breathing, eating, or thinking. A good deal of healing takes place in sex for human beings, because the entire sexual system is designed to hold onto deep inherited energies that mostly have not been healed from the past. The bond that grows when something like this is practiced beats anything else I know for reliable happiness. It's also a reminder of how important the body is and how important love is. I have used that energy to help with various spiritual things and it has certainly been worthwhile. All best wishes, ~NeutralWire~

I'm the midway between goldisheavy and forestofsouls here, since the first two mental exercises in Bardon are 'contemplation' by the former's definition and the third is 'meditation' by the latter's. This is quite common with the Zen people, not sufficient focus on personality, beliefs, and interrelation to one's present time and place. In fact the Tibetan lineages have been accused of the same thing (by Bill Mistele amongst others). In Taoism this would be called cultivation of Essence (Xing) without cultivation of Life/Destiny (Ming). EDIT: To clarify, exercise 1, Thought Control, of 'Initiation Into Hermetics' is equivalent to what goldisheavy calls 'contemplation'. It involves watching one's thoughts without interfering. Ultimately the flow of thoughts abates. Exercise 2 involves putting the flow of thoughts to a specific subject and making sure it stays there -- also a part of 'contemplation'. Exercise 3 involving sitting without thoughts. All 3 of these are learnable skills, and now that I can do them, I see them all as equally important. Like goldisheavy I recognize great value in the ability to think neutrally in an uncensored manner, seeing the roots of beliefs and reflexive difficulties, and attaining personal insight. Exercise 2 can usefully be extended with a couple of techniques from Greer's work, for example 'Sacred Geometry Oracle', in which, having learned to construct a particular form, you meditate on it. This meditation takes the form of Bardon's exercise 2, honed to a slightly finer point by sifting through all thought trails, picking one, and following it through to its conclusion. I agree with forestofsouls that these are learnable skills. You can get good enough with them that when you want to just watch thoughts, you just watch -- when you want to guide and select thoughts, you guide and select -- when you want to move beyond thoughts, you move beyond. I don't consider these in themselves enough to develop what I call 'wisdom' because it is hard to change beliefs and life patterns this way. For that task I prefer affirmation, self-hypnosis, storytelling, and various other things. OT again but why not? All best wishes, ~NeutralWire~

Not to worry on the borrowing but very kind of you. Yes I'm in London, I think I can get the bloke who told me about this to pass me the book. I wouldn't say I have serious issues at all, just interested whether anyone has tried anything from it. I also have heard about medical science backing this, but I haven't investigated in detail yet. I've used peroxide (following Mickaharic's recommendation) as an astral cleanser and it worked very well. NW

They are as real as one considers oneself to be, certainly. NW

We are certainly here to learn and this is a fundamental principle. But this thread is not about how we react to religions, it's about how they can be encouraged to react better to one another. The Damanhurian approach: http://www.thetemples.org/ ... is to recognize and honour all manifestations of the divine worldwide. What has been said I think before in this thread, and I must agree, is that unless that honouring is a fundamental tenet of the religion in question, then the religion doesn't accord with the principle that all paths in the web are necessary -- which is a principle certainly honoured by God/Tao. Get all religions to sign a piece of paper saying that and publicize it heavily, you would be doing something: but all radical groups in the world would swell in number. So you have to go quite carefully with some of these institutions, and honour the fact that they are playing a necessary role in the story of humanity. Individuals who join religions are often quite heavily shaped by them, especially if the religion does not encourage original thought. Religions are egregores that sweep people into their flow. It can be hard for some to keep their feet. All religions have an idea of virtue that is incomplete, the complete one for the person rests within them and arises as it must. One other point: if a religion is based on historical-style annals, it will be harder to change in essence, because one is not allowed to change the histories once they have been made public. With other religions, which don't focus so much on a past story, there is the possibility to say 'it is a fundamental tenet of our faith that all religious paths of humanity are necessary and important to that place at that moment," which is the truth. There was once a place called Harran that had a Hermetics as their public practice! Temples to the Gods, etc., although they also believed in the One. We're talking about ninth century Anatolia. The Caliph came calling and wanted to know what religion they followed. They took on a lawyer who knew the Islamic codes of law, he told them: say you believe in the One, pick Hermes as your prophet and the Hermetica as your holy book.' They did that, and the lawyer was able to pass them off as 'Sabians', a sect mentioned in the Qu'ran but ill-defined. For these people, the respect accorded their path was due to nothing more than a legal loophole. Muslims, Christians, Sabians or Jews were the options. Since no-one really knew what 'Sabians' were, they got away with it. If they had not been able to pass for Sabians it would have been lawful to shed their blood -- so said the Caliph al-Ma'mum. This is the problem with a system of thought which could be interpreted as: everything important has already been written. 'God' goes on writing nonetheless! Does the person in the present moment learn to listen to their own conscience or is the divine voice within overruled by legalism, rote and groupthink? Some, like Buddha, were careful to say: if you disagree with me, fine. If others perhaps were equally careful, it unfortunately hasn't been recorded. All best wishes, ~NeutralWire~

You'll be joining a great band of people doing that, and incidentally, regular allopathic medicine's high energy use is going to be hamstringing it in the future to an increasing extent. The future is trad medicine all the way -- with new stuff added in. Simon Martin over at CAM magazine -- http://www.cam-mag.com/news.htm -- always has something interesting. NW

Desert Eagle -- thanks for posting that video, fascinating. NW

Nice. NW

Oh aren't we all... NW

Bruce, congratulations on making the downshift happen, and rediscovering the 'uncarved wood'. *applause* NW

That's going to happen a lot more easily now that everyone's wealth is declining. I think it's a perfectly Taoist thought that when wealth appears one can be wealthy, but when it disappears, one cannot! It's about increase and decrease. The latest Archdruid report: htttp://www.thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com ... is all about that. The key is, money is not wealth. The richer you are the harder it will be to adjust. Not that you can't! It's just harder. Many look for someone or something to blame, hoarding protectively what has long since ceased to provide any safety, power, or even fun. Meanwhile it will become increasingly possible to live on barter in many places, that is, if you have a skill anyone needs. Those who are on the verge of a medical career might want to consider carefully how much their chosen methods can do without electricity. Neither humiliation nor voicelessness is necessarily an adjunct to poverty. In fact one can well be the boss and still not be wealthy these days. It's possible to be a great success but have no money whatsoever, depending upon a} where you live, and b} what your definition of 'success' is. The secret is the internal comfort that comes from being in tune with the truth, both interior and exterior. When this is in place, one cannot lose what makes one happy. This is always what life has been trying to teach us, and what cheap oil has been effectively preventing for the non-practitioner. "What man is unable to achieve through his own diligence, practice, renunciation, pain, grief, etc., will be presented to him by destiny through disappointments and vicissitudes," says Franz Bardon, and adds: "Life is a school, not an amusement park." When the oil culture is big, the wisdom is small. Pretty sure Taoism teaches something of the kind, and it certainly isn't interested in making oneself stand out of the crowd -- Chuang Tzu likens that to cannibalism. 'Wisdom is exactly happiness' says Austin Osman Spare, and on that one I'm in agreement. Christianity's view of camels and needles, as JMG points out, came in at a similar time in history to our own -- one of economic decline towards the end of a civilization. Funnily enough, the same syncretistic spiritual impulses appeared then as appear now also. A good, serious think will point up the simple fact that 'you cannot eat money' as the Cree say. All best wishes, ~NeutralWire~

I agree with that. You might want to talk but you won't need to. In my experience anyone who achieves anything at all in these disciplines does tend to have exited the groupmind stage left. (This doesn't have to mean they're antisocial though.) They start to become other, and might enjoy it. Yes but a hallucination is not something you work towards. If you work towards seeing the process of incarnation and achieve it, people who are only chattering about what some teacher said 10 generations ago will not seem as relevant as they once did. Not only many mystics but also many poets, inventors, explorers, etc., are used to rubbing the talk of the town the wrong way going out, and then being celebrated, villified, or ridiculed on the way back in. You have to have the 'because it's there' attitude, and treat all the impostors just the same. Who would ever get through any strong training without that? My point is also that, no matter how much you talk in the courtyard, the courage to proceed through the gate is found within, rather than in polite converse. All best wishes, ~NeutralWire~

Excellent and just what these places are for. NW

To me you've illustrated the main problem right there -- people talk without experience. If you have a spiritual experience that proves rebirth to your own satisfaction, what difference is talking ever going to make? But talking won't give you the experience. In situations where you decide you will achieve something real, you're often out of step with the talkers. NW

Oh always -- I'm with you there. It takes a great deal of persistence to gain conscious control over what had been instinctual, and go to inner layers in a stable manner. I do think it's all in how much you want it though, and also how good your method is. But then my personal path is all about this. I agree although I don't think about 'blockers' exactly, only because it seems to me that all beliefs are there for good reason, and will change for equally good reasons. They are all about energetic story-flows through the self. If you can totally relax and totally concentrate, focus your mind properly in other words, you can easily have a goal without the goal disturbing you. This is one reason why moral progress is demanded of us before that kind of mind comes naturally -- your goals had better be positive or you'll become a nuisance. NW

Awesome dude. On the 10%... I guess we'll all find out, but it all depends upon exactly what combo of technologies you're representing as standard. Like I say, although there's no oil alternative, there are nothing alternatives. Sorry to be OT. NW

goldisheavy -- Totally agree on the distractions thing, but it's really not necessary to have 'no goals left' -- just necessary to be able to focus on the moment you are in exclusively, something which comes with practice. That's why Zen people like archery. Instant feedback on your concentration level. The key to this is amount of time spent. Anyone who can't relax now can do their best 15 mins a day and call me in a year (but I've seen it take two). Doing other things can help, experiment! There are many, many techniques to help with relaxation out there now, it's one of the West's prime interests. It's all about getting over your own defensiveness. Meditation ceases to be a 'miserable failure' at the point one ceases worrying about succeeding -- but one can succeed and indeed have a goal without worrying about having the goal, which was the point of a recent thread on intention. When you do archery you have a target, and that's a goal. It's not the goal that's the problem but the story one is telling oneself about the goal. A little overstated I believe! All best wishes, ~NeutralWire~

Did you miss my post above? I think I gave some answers to you on the pagan issue. Answer to the nitrogen issue lies in permaculture and organic farming, probably the most important recent invention of human kind. We are looking at dramatic dieoffs but not back to prime agrarian. NW

ralis - Hmm... 'we', eh? Some of 'us' are not standing by! If you have any practical steps to suggest I am sure some of 'us' would welcome them. As far as the question about survival rates post-fossil fuel, we are looking at dieoff but not back down to 10% of current levels. I've posted his blog before and will again: John Michael Greer has been tracking this since the 1970s. There are quite a few people working on this subject: http://www.thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com ... and for those who want to get involved in initiatives towards sustainable post-oil living in their local area, check out Transitions Towns: http://www.transitiontowns.org/ There is no need to feel powerless. Owing to permaculture techniques, lower tech tech, and scavenging, we are looking at a 'stairstep decline' -- that is, a series of ever-lower equilibria punctuated by crises -- as western technological society winds down over the next several generations. If this lights a fire under anyone's goals to be healthy and well-fed in sustainable ways, they'll be thankful later. It's also a great moment to start thinking about how close the nearest farm is and asking much you have in common your neighbours, and vice-versa. Spirituality has a strong role to play in the future. Prehistorically, cultures with good relations to elemental spiritual forces were the ones which prospered. That was the reason for so many small country shrines and cultural mannerisms that could well stand to be revived. What survives will not be the culture we know, so it is a good moment to start thinking what needs to be taken forward vs. what has outlived its usefulness. The shakedown has begun, and the system is going to rebalance bringing difficult times -- but also, opportunities to live differently for those who time their exit well and have God's support. Perhaps we will soon see who actually enjoys divine favour, and who has been fooling their congregations! Things are never as simple as a purist would have you believe, but in this case, I think that what is contrary to the Tao really isn't going to last long. Big top-down schemes of international harmony are great, but small, constructive practical steps on the ground taken by individuals will be of greater importance in my opinion. Those belief systems which foster it will make out well. There are also many twists in the plot to come I suspect, and many opportunities for creativity. All best wishes, ~NeutralWire~

You can get dead sea bath salt from some places here in the UK, very good stuff indeed. NW

You are! Ya Mu is right. Not just two either. Things like this which happen spontaneously IME often seem to happen when people are at the beginning of a spiritual path, and are a sign that the going is good. As far as repeating is concerned, these things mostly seem to be single events. Do more of whatever you were doing and see what happens. Essentially you remote-viewed your own presence on an astral plane, something that the Bardon system I work with will gradually train you to do deliberately, but I'm sure many other systems also would. All best wishes, ~NeutralWire~

There are great therapists out there! If you'd have had treatment from Milton Erickson in his prime, you wouldn't be complaining. Alot of what the really innovative therapists have done has been very helpful to spiritual seekers. As for the 'average' therapist, lost in theories written by other people, and prescribing pills... they can be a different story. It's like with the recent thread on doctors -- luck of the draw in many ways. As far as the pharmaceutical side effects thing goes, you do have a choice. My own method would be diet/nutrition, exercise, qigong, belly breathing and relaxation, possibly some seminal retention depending on the situation, taking in some nature and something beautiful/artistic (including artistic activity of one's own if desired), a little spiritual cleansing with incense, and prayer. Add them in one at a time and then go 100 days. I speak as someone who was the despair of a couple of shrinks in my youth (until I told them what I realized they wanted to hear, then they thought I was doing better!) This was in the days before all those pills, thank goodness, but it's really not hard to be well if you ignore the ephemeral. You have to remember, so many of these doctors are turned around by the latest thing, they don't have a clear sight of wellness. Their monkey minds are not controlled. None of them have done any sitting at all. When things don't work, move along. It's fine to be pissed off at incompetence, but it's even better to get well. All best wishes, ~NeutralWire~

That would be me. NW

I've also heard that version of events in Tibet, Apepch7, and it certainly rang true for me. NW