Dreamingawake

Wow, I didn't think I'd ever reach the end of this thread! After about page 20 I just started skimming =P One thing I'd point out is that women may not be the best people for a man to get relationship advice from. That's a lot like going to a restaurant and asking fellow patrons the best way to prepare that amazing steak you're eating. They can tell you what they like about it but the vast majority of them have no idea what goes into making it so enjoyable. Similarly, any woman can tell you what qualities she likes in a guy or what experiences she prefers but usually will have no idea what goes on under the surface to make any particular date or guy really great. From what I've read here ( and if I've understood him correctly ) sloppy has been pretty accurate and straight-forward. The differences in a lot of these actions are slight. Some guys will buy a woman a drink (or a book) as a tactic but there are just as many who do it just because they feel like it. If you're out with your friends and you're buying a drink you'd likely get one for your buddy too. In fact guys tend to just take turns buying rounds. So if a girl and I are hanging out having a good time and I'm buying a drink anyway, why not get her one too? I've done this as many times as not and don't see any issue with it. I feel like many of these 'tactics' are really just a crutch or maybe training wheels would be a better example. Take a guy with poor social skills and give him something to hold onto so he doesn't panic, then put him in a bunch of social situations to force him to learn how to interact with women and eventually he acclimates and learns. He then forgets all about that script he was supposed to be repeating because he's relaxed enough to just talk and have a good time. They do the same thing with martial arts. "When your opponent does this, you must do that." You practice and then spar and eventually you get so used to people trying to crush your face that you relax and just react however you feel is appropriate. It's really pretty simple. If two grown, healthy, happy people like each other, they're probably going to get naked and that's a good thing. It's only a big deal if you make it one. Edit: An addendum to my first point. That should in no way be read to minimize or undervalue women's experiences, opinions or input. The same applies to women getting advice from men. Each sex can give the other perspective but not much else.

One of my all time favorite books. It teaches through the context of combat but the essential lessons are applicable in everything.

I see it all the time too. Living out here in vegas I've known more than a few really beautiful women that spend entirely too much time sitting on the couch by themselves eating ice cream and watching lifetime network because guys don't have the balls to go talk to them. Oh sure they get 'hit on' 30 times a day and they've heard every cheesy pickup line ever but most guys don't really talk to them. So whether the guy is super hot or has a full body rug she'll give him a shot because he's the best she's got on a friday night.

I find it kind of telling when people try to separate sex and spirituality. "i'm too busy being spiritual," or "my thoughts are too deep to have a decent conversation with a 'normal' girl." There is no separation. The more you grow the more you'll be able to connect with more people in more meaningful ways. That connection is pure magic and some of the statements here seem like an attempt to use budha to protect you from the sour grapes. The grapes are not sour, they're wonderful. You just need to learn how climb. As for cheap tricks, I've learned a few. I learned tricks to diffuse volatile situations. I've learned tricks to not get punched in the face and to take body shots from almost anybody. The military taught me tricks to increase my accuracy across many weapon systems. I learned tricks that make me much more successful in a job interview and make me much more likely to keep the job after I'm hired. I learn tricks that help me beat video games. Anyone who's tried to learn any skill has been taught 'tricks' to help them along and increase their success. Why should learning to interact with other people(especially the opposite sex) be any different. Saying guys who apply themselves to learn how to connect with women are creepy only makes sense if you have negative views of sex. Creepy people don't get laid. Women evade creepy people as if they smelled really, really bad. Actually that's everyone, not just women =P Most of that community IMHO are probably guys who see where they fall short and are taking steps to improve. It's to be expected that they'd go to extremes. How many of the old time strongmen performed superhuman feats in adulthood because they trained so hard to compensate for the sickly bodies of their childhood? Well that's my view anyway, or at least part of it. I hope it's at least a little helpful.

Meat is murder! Tasty, tasty murder :wub:

I suspect the big draw of this system is that 'you don't get to know.' It's the forbidden fruit. If the details of the system were public knowledge then the same people who chase it the hardest and talk about how it's the 'best' even though they know nothing of it would probably be the ones to criticize it the most. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence

Generally speaking I'm not sure there's any absolute morality so to speak. When you see one lion kill another for leadership of the pride nobody says there's anything 'wrong' with that. Certainly nobody but the zebra/dinner minds much if the lions are hungry either. The idea of morality strikes me more as a practical matter of mutually beneficial understandings. You don't kill your neighbor in his sleep and steal his tv because you wouldn't want him to do that to you. In return you get to sleep soundly, wake up in the morning and watch the news over breakfast. When someone violates this trust, we band together and seek revenge as an example to anyone else who might have similar ideas. This we call civilization. Used to be we just clubbed them to death but now we put them in big expensive prisons with tv's of their own. This 'civilization' brings with it a kind of security so it would seem the more civilized we are the more likely as a species we are to survive. At it's core it's fairly simple. "I'll try not to hurt you if you try not to hurt me." So if you want a moral code to stick to I'd suggest keep it simple. Just try not to hurt anyone if you can avoid it. For the most part the rest of the 'morals' are simply attempts to manipulate others for the sake of furthering the agendas of their originators. Thats my two cents worth but take it with a grain of salt because I make no claim to being any kind of good or moral person

*facepalms* (NOTE TO MODS.... WE NEED A FACE-PALM EMOTICON!! ) How is this debate even still going on? One person on the forum has an irrational fear of dogs and an entire debate springs up as if this were some legitimate spiritual issue. I've known a few people who were absolutely convinced that black people were genetically predisposed to be ignorant and violent yet no person with even a modicum of sense would entertain such a ridiculous idea. No amount of logic or proof will convince someone who is determined to maintain hatred or fear and there's really nothing any of us can do to change that. Maybe he'll come back next lifetime as a "vicious" puppy and live next door to a guy who's convinced he's the devil because he didn't have the good sense to be born a yellow lab All that said, I vote WEAGLE!! :wub: It would be so cute with the giant paws and the droopy ears

LMAO! I haven't had much time for lurking lately. Is he still going on about that nonsense?

They make some solid and very obvious points and seem to have covered your questions pretty thoroughly. What else is there?

I hear they're GREAT with liver and a nice chianti

Thanks a bunch Marblehead. I was just curious and thought I'd missed it somewhere. excellent post btw

speaking of lazy I haven't kept up with this thread for the last week or so and can't remember where I left off (lots of pages). Did Lao ever actually say what his method was? All I found was 'read the ancient sages and believe what they wrote.' I could be wrong but I'm not entirely sure how just believing something I read in a really old book is gonna do anything for me. Perhaps I misunderstood and there's more to it?

This is just my own perspective but worrying about karma is a bit like worrying about gravity. You don't really think about it most of the time but you still make sure not to step off any tall buildings or steep ledges. Trying to figure it all out is like trying to know where every ball will go when you break in a game of pool. It's much more useful to focus on the cause/effect relationships you can control (ie one ball at a time ) Hope thats helpful

I never stated that lack of fear would stop dog attacks. There is a huge difference between being fearless and being strong. Straw man arguments and personal attacks don't negate the information I'm offering. Clearly you've had some bad experiences and if you want to let fears based on those past events rule your perceptions then that is certainly your choice to make. Just please don't attempt to spread fear and prejudice under the guise of 'spiritual truth.' The world already has plenty of that going on without your adding to it.