CarsonZi

Hey ShaktiMama and All Amen. Well said. I am living that experience right now! Hahaha I totally agree. This sentence sent a weird resonance through my system. I think it was because this statement contradicts the statement about Shaktipat being about "Love and Grace" (which is the perspective here also). I think shaktipat is a blessing, bestowed by Grace, that occasionally comes through a human medium. I don't know that it is about "doing" anything. And not that we shouldn't be "developing virtues, right action, right behavior, internal cultivation, etc.", just that I don't know that this has any real bearing on Shaktipat. This, in my experience, is because shakti flows through the "conduit" and does not come from the "conduit". One of the most powerful experiences I have had of shakti in the body was when there was an "accidental" shaktipat given to another person. What a beautiful statement. Thank you Love!

Good Morning Mal and All Just want to sincerely apologize for my part in threadjacking this topic. Please forgive me for pouring fuel on the fire. It won't happen again. Love!

.....continued from above....... All that exists outside also exists inside. Essentially there is no "inside" or "outside". Everything just Is. Losing the need to differentiate between the two is crucial to living a liberated existence. When I said that the Buddha(s) knew the truth of Reality by going inwards I meant that they did not have to look "outside" to Know. In one name or another perhaps. What's in a name? Naming "reality" is not required to know the truth of it. You call it Buddhadharma, I choose not to name it definitively. One less attachment to drop (the attachment to the name). Most people who are awakened don't say they are. That would be (or at least lead to) an attachment. As Yogani at AYP says: "The Guru is in You". All necessary guidance comes from within when you intimately Know Silence. Generalizations are just that.....generalizations. Not Truth. It was a pleasure chatting with you today. Thank you for your civility and your willingness to discuss. I hope you enjoy your dinner as much as I will enjoy mine Namaste. Love!

Ok....one more reply before I too have to attend to the mango curry and veggies (and a 1 month old) One who is liberated has dropped all conditions. "Thinking" you have dropped all conditions is not liberation. One actually has to LIVE from a place of no-conditioning in order to be liberated. And ou can't "think" yourself into a place of no-conditions. It is a matter of purification, which is where practices come in. Not trying to convince you of anything. Your opinion of my state of being is meaningless to me. What matters to me is the cessation of all suffering....aka liberation from conditions, attachments and beliefs. Liberation is the absence of conditioned phenomena. ALL must be emptied to be truly liberated. Including the belief that one is liberated. Agreed that the seed of bondage is subtle. There is no "end" to liberation as it exists only right Now. One does not need to "know" anything. One merely needs to be open. One merely needs to be the uninhibited Divine Flow. Essentially we all have the same cosmic history. We have all been, and all are, everything. There is nothing that you are not, or have not been before. I don't know how you define Buddhahood, nor does it matter to me. Whether you call liberation "Buddhahood", or you call it Enlightenment or Oneness or Wholeness or Unbound Awareness or whatever else one may call living as Reality, these are all still just words. Reality, and living as Reality, is so much more then words or definitions. And sharing Reality with others will always be paramount to one who fully lives in it. .....continued below......

No attachment to Silence. Silence just Is. Interdependent right? Sure. But one doesn't have to study the teachings of the Buddhas in order to directly and totally realize inter-dependent origination. One can merely go inward and let go of all concepts, ideas and beliefs, letting the mind rest in the reality of what Is. Time is not reality. It will take each person exactly as long as it takes them to reach liberation, and not a second less. And what brings one to this point of liberation will not always be the same for everyone. Sure, I know what you mean. Do I agree with the use of the word "right" in this sentence...no. I would correct your statement in saying "There are ways to view meditative experiences........" No right, no wrong. Just what works for you. The clarity that is here comes from a deep connection to Silence. And Silence has no beginning and no end. All conditions must be dropped in order to be liberated. Right and wrong are relative not absolute like you imply. When there are no seeds left, what is left is the beginningless, endless Silence (and Silence is just a word, it is not reality...."Reality" can not be named or else it is not Reality....reality can only be lived). And this is what we each and all are once we have "let go". Yup. Love!

.....continued from above...... Words can't touch the experience of Reality. It can only be lived in my opinion. Nothing but Grace. "I" did nothing to deserve this. Doesn't change the fact that living as Reality is not contigent upon understanding Buddhism. I have no doubt that Buddhism is unique. What ISN'T unique! All I am saying is that knowing the in's and out's of Buddhism is not required to be liberated. In fact in a lot of ways "knowing" (small "k") itself is an obstacle to liberation. I don't know a lot about Buddhism, so correect me if I am misinformed here, but didn't the Buddha refuse to talk about the afterlife? Actually....it's (liberation/enlightenment) not very complicated at all. In fact it is very simple. Let go and be liberated. That's it. Simple. TOO simple for some perhaps Inner Silence (the source of all knowledge) is even clearer. This I know from experience. I know little of Buddhadharma, but I know exactly what I need to about liberation. One can interpret things however they want according to their inclinations. I'm sure someone out there could find a way to interpret the Buddhist scriptures to encourage violence. Why someone would want to do this is beyond me though Love!

Hey Vajrahridaya and All (my apologies to everyone who thinks this thread has been hijacked [myself included ] as it most certainly has been. And my apologies for continuing this hijacking with my continued engagement with Vaj) No conditions are necesary for liberation. In fact all conditions must be let go of for liberation. This "veiwless view" can be attained even when one does not follow a Buddhist path. I am a walking testament to this fact. I do not follow a Buddhist path yet I seem to have the same "viewless view" as you. Again, all conditions must be dropped in order to be liberated. It is my personal experience that what you are calling "right view" came AFTER coming to live from a place free from concepts, ideas and beliefs. I had to let go of my intellect in order for it to be "refined". Again, no apologies necessary. So your original sentence was: "That's a side effect, yes... but if you remain an active Dharmapala at the pralaya." So, can you perhaps restate what you are saying in plain English as I do not understand what you mean when you say that "liberation (as I describe it) is a side effect, but if you remain an active Dharma protector at the big Oneness crunch." Not following you. Please forgive my ignorance. Sure. But do you have to follow a Buddhist path to get to a point where you see all the teachings of the Buddhas at the same time? Nope. The Buddhas accessed Reality/Truth by going inward. We can each do the same. Yup, regardless of "tradition". Personally I have no use for organized religion. I was soured on it as a child when I was forced to be part of one. I chose to find Truth within instead of without. To each their own. .......continued below.......

.....continued from above..... I have no attachment to not understanding the Dharma. I am just not very drawn to all the "talk" in Buddhism. I just much prefer finding wisdom through Silence then through chatter. Well, the Buddha (as much as you would love to believe) does not have a monopoly on Buddhahood/liberation/enlightenment. Buddhahood is just a term. And a term can not BE reality. There is no "right and wrong". Right and wrong are labels/concepts in the mind. Reality just IS....it isn't right or wrong. Yes. I am truly letting go. I am open and free. Sure. But again, Buddhadharma does not have a monopoly on letting go. Anyone can let go if they choose to. I'm not much into "paths". I'm into being reality....being free. Sure. Makes no difference to me where ideas come from. No idea is Truth. I like the idea of inter-dependent origination. But again, ideas will not liberate you. Only letting go of ideas and resting in reality will liberate you. Thanks for the conversation. Love!

Hi Vajrahridaya and thanks for continuing this conversation in a civil manner. I don't do the "arguing" thing very often anymore, and as soon as the civility is gone, so am I, so....thank you for being civil To me, right view is a side effect of awakening....not the one and only cause. Never said enlightenment was the "attainment of one grandiose light of all" nor do I think/believe that. I have said twice now what liberation/enlightenment is (to me). My use of the words "the light" did not indicate what you think it did. I was indicating something much subtler. Sorry dude. No clue what you are saying here. Plain English please. Some of us are not very well studied in Buddhism....specifically me I agree. Again, this is just a side-effect. Again, agreed. But one does not have to be Buddhist to have a clear cognition and understanding of the nature of everything. Yes, I think you may have misinterpreted. That or there has been some growth here since then hahaha. Yes I totally agree with that. No apologies necessary dude Reality influenced the Buddha. The Buddha does not have a monopoly on reality. Reality is each and every one of our birthright. ......continued below......

Hi Starjumper7 and All Hahaha....yeah I guess you're right. "The Superior Path" is the one that causes you to awaken Love!

Hi Vajrahridya and All Because you can't. You can't KNOW what another needs to awaken. Everyone has different karma and a different "matrix of obstructions" blocking "the light". Well, in the "A Question for Vaj the Buddhist" thread you just agreed with me on what liberation is. We both agreed that liberation is the loss of identification in a self, the loss of identification with All concepts, ideas and beliefs. And living in the "Now" 24/7. You don't know what I believe at all. I don't "believe" in anything (not in the nihilist sort of way but in the "there are no absolutes" sort of way) Actually I don't believe in any absolutes...as I just said above. Please stop putting words in my mouth (and beliefs in my mind)....that's not very nice, nor is it conducive to a civil conversation. No, actually I haven't. I don't grasp at anything, even a "universal self". We've already agreed that liberation is the loss of identification in a self. This means I don't believe in a "self". You certainly are incredibly attached to all sorts of definitions and labels aren't you. And you seem to project an awful lot of definitions (and beliefs) on other people too. Attachment IS suffering. Gotta let go of your attachment to Buddhism (or what you are calling Buddhism) if you ever want to be truly liberated man. Let go. Liberation/enlightenment is a letting go...not a holding on. And you are holding on to your beliefs tighter then just about anyone I have ever met. No offence meant. Love!

You can't know this. You BELIEVE this. And this belief is holding you back from liberation. It creates seperation. And ALL seperation is an illusion created in the mind. Love!

Hi Vajrahridaya and All Notice I said that enlightenment is the loss of identification with ALL concepts, ideas and beliefs. This includes the belief that there is a "present". This loss of identification with all concepts, ideas and beliefs also includes losing the belief that there is a superior path. Love!

Hi Vajrahridaya and All You can't KNOW this. You would have to know ALL possible paths in order to truly Know this. What works for one does not always work for another. There is no one path that works for everyone. Love!

To me, enlightenment is losing the identification with self. It is losing the identification with all concepts, ideas and beliefs. It is living in the present 24/7. And it is a never ending process. Love!

Hi ShaktiMama and All To me, the answer to this question is "karma yoga"....doing something for someone else, today. It is important to engage in our spiritual practices every day, but if we aren't using what we are gaining from these practices for the betterment of humanity, well, then.....it's gonna be a long, hard, very lonely journey IME. Giving away that which we are cultivating in practices is a sure way to authentically love God and neighbor....and then we will be like innocent little children, joyful and laughing all day long. Just another comment from the peanut gallery Love!

Hey Tao99 Popularity is overrated anyways I'm not trying to define what is and what is not an "attack". Quite simply I don't care to define things much. I was merely pointing out that people generally attack other people because they are scared and confused. That's just my experience though...your mileage may vary. I personally find that the only appropriate action to "a healthy dose of realism, skepticism, disliking, critiquing, or critical thinking" or anything else for that matter, is Love. But this might make me unpopular Hahahahaha Love!

I love you ShaktiMama Don't take things personally. When you are to a point in life where you are just standing in awe of the light, well, there's little "person" left to take things personally right? Both "good" and "bad" things. And remember, when people "attack" it is ALWAYS because of fear and confusion. The only "real" response can be Love. Love!

Wow.....lots of drama here. Reminds me of Junior High School a bit Love!

Hi Susan and All Thank you for continuing this discussion with me....much gratitude _/\_ This is essentially how it was for me as well (although my first kundalini awakening was not due to shaktipat but the result of an effective twice daily sadhana combined with Grace). And although I did not have fear of Self, I was like you in that I knew in the mind that I was Self, but longed for (pined for actually) the experiential Knowing of it that was beyond mind. And this Knowing was solidified more and more with each awakening and every sadhana. Haha. Reminds me of the time I went to a Sahaja Yoga conference in which I was the only Caucasion out of several hundred people. They asked everyone who was new to Sahaja Yoga to come to the front for a "hands-on session" in which one of the organizers would facilitate some energy flow through hand gestures/movements. At a certain point I had some incredibly intense automatic bhastrika pranayam and some automatic kriyas happening, caused by the kundalini flow, that were very noisy and very orgasmic....there was no stopping it. But since I was the only one having this experience at the time everyone around me (literally) ran to get as far from me as possible thinking I was going crazy or something hahaha. Can only imagine being in a room filled with people having a similar experience to what I was having at that time. I can imagine that the energy in the room would be electric to say the least! It would be wonderful to be able to facilitate the Divine Flow in another at will. It is still my experience though that Grace is a major player in the kundalini awakening and that not everyone will be able to feel shaktipat, no matter who is facilitating, if it is not "in the cards" at that time for that person. Are you saying that you can facilitate a kundalini awakening in anyone at any time? Yes, that is my experience (as a 'regular person" ). The shakti flow that came through on the two occasions I mentioned earlier were completely spontaneous and uncontrolled. Again, I'm pretty confident in saying that Grace was a major factor and that the persons who recieved at that time were "ready" and that I was merely a conduit for the Divine Flow at that time. If they were not ready, it would not have happened. Again, I am curious to know if you can facilitate a kundalini awakening in anyone.... "ready" or not. If you (or anyone who can "control" the flow of shakti into another) can not facilitate an awakening in anyone (ready or not) then I would still have to say that the most major contributor to Shaktipat is Grace and not the human facilitator. (Please understand that I am not trying to doubt your, or anyone's, abilities to give Shaktipat....I just know that the times when I have had a human try to facilitate Shakti flow in me (on their, or my, time schedule) it did not work. Only when Grace allowed for it to happen, only when I was "ready", did it actually happen. This AYP lesson on Shaktipat is very close to my experience: http://www.aypsite.org/146.html I hope you will take the time to read it. And I believe (although I can't KNOW this for sure...hence the use of the word "believe") that the "receiver" has a large part to play in the transmission as well. At least that is my experience. Not sure if it will be that way for everyone or not. I guess I just need to continue to "put in my time" Oh yes. I Know this to be true. Love!

Hi Susan and All Can you put words to this reason? I've always felt that I was born so that I could remember who/what I truly am, but I am always curious to hear about others' feelings on why they exist in human form. Care to share? I imagine it would be something like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=QGpS3aCpC6s&feature=related Can someone be "taught" to give shaktipat? I have accidentally given shaktipat twice in this life, but both times it was definitely not something either intended, nor of my control. It was something that flowed through me and there was no intention for this to happen....it just did. It would be kinda neat to be able to "choose" to give shaktipat though. It would truly be an honor to meet a soul like Larry in person. Hopefully one day the opportunity will manifest itself. Honestly, if it was still "just me" I would drop everything and run to Sedona just to sit in the same room with this man, but unfortunately (well not really ) it is not "just me" anymore..... and I just took a whole years worth of vacation to transition into parenthood so....perhaps next year, hahaha Thank you again (everyone) for all your generous sharing. Namaste. Love!

Hi ShaktiMama, Vajrasatva and All I missed this video the first time through this thread and have just watched it..... Oh. My. God. The only word that comes to mind after watching this video is: "transcendent". This video had me MOANING in ecstasy. Wow. I have a lot that I would like to say about this video/man, but sometimes Silence says it best................... AAAAAAAUUUUUUUMMMMMMM Love!

Thank you for that video Shaktimama I really (REALLY ) felt that _/\_ (especially in the heart, throat and third eye, but not exclusively there) I was able to view Santiago's aura as the energy increased. A wonderful presence you both have. Thank you for sharing of yourselves so generously. Namaste. Love!

Interesting thread. I have recieved shaktipat 3 times so far in this life. Once in the SY tradition, and twice in dreams. The SY shaktipat I received was very "mild' in comparison to the two transmissions I received via dreams. I did not feel much in the way of energy movements during or after my SY transmission, but I did have some "perception changes" which have stayed with me to this day. The second shaktipat I recieved was during a dream I had while doing a one month Hatha teacher training intensive. I was given shaktipat by my unborn (at the time) daughter (my wife was only 2.5 months pregnant at the time of the dream so we did not know it was going to be a girl yet) in the dream and was told what I was to name her Amrita Grace (which we did...she is now 1 month old). This shaktipat experience DRAMATICALLY changed the flow of energy here and I have not been the same since (in a very good way ). The third time I received shaktipat (also via a dream) it was from a yoga master who I choose not to name for personal reasons. During this dream I was touched on the back at the anahata chakra and on the crown chakra (simultaneously) and it caused an unshakable inner silence I have yet to lose touch with to this day (this happened several months ago now). This experience also changed the way the energy flows in the body here, but the most dramatic change from this dream would be the unshakeable inner silence it produced. Personally, I find shaktipat to be magical and life changing. BUT, that said, there is an element of "Grace" involved in recieving shakti that I think is very often overlooked. Shaktipat did not "work" for me when I went looking for it......it happened only when the Universe saw fit to grace me with the experience of it (for whatever reason). I know that a lot of people seek shaktipat because they see it as a "shortcut" to energetic or enlightenment experiences.....and in my experience, there are no shortcuts. Everyone must put in the individual effort required to drop the illusion of seperation. Just the perspective from here Love!

Hello Mewtwo and All Personally I have been practicing Jala Neti and Nauli Kriya everyday for a couple of years now. I find them both very practical as well as results oriented. I haven't had a cold or anything of that sort since starting Jala Neti practice (not to mention the benefits in my pranayam practice), and all the digestive problems I used to have have ceased since starting the practice of Nauli Kriya. I don't practice Amaroli, Intestinal wash, or colon cleanse though....not yet anyways ....who knows what the future holds Love!