doc benway

I guess you are not very familiar with xingyiquan. Each technique has a name and an association with one of the five elements or twelve animals…

I guess all of the punches in the solo forms and 2 person sets are simply training tools and we’re not allowed to use those in a fight. Interesting point of view.

This means it is not unique to taijiquan.. at least that is how I use the word unique.

Agreed, we just need to practice really, not worry so much about the theory, whether it be ATP or force vectors. But in some sense we do need to understand how it is acquired (eg how to practice properly) and how to explain it (the practice). This is why I don't think it's necessary to worry about magic. We do the practice, we see the effects. It does not violate any laws of physics although sometimes it can be shockingly effective. More often than not that is a consequence of the perfection of timing, targeting, and taking advantage of the opponent's vulnerability. I once had a student ask me to demonstrate fajin after class. I did ji at maybe 25% of what I thought would be full power and knocked him back about six feet onto his back. I hit him harder than I expected although he was fine and really appreciated the experience. Part of it was that I was on the spot in front of a class - that gets the juices flowing... Feeling it is critical to learning what it's really all about and what direction to take your training. One method my teacher recommended is to line the walls of a small room with mattresses and practice on each other.

So we agree, fajin is not unique to taijiquan. Wing chun training does develop jin. At least I learned such methods. I studied with a student of William Cheung, Bruce Lee's kung fu brother. There may be lineages who don't share that part. Some can be secretive. Standing is necessary to cultivate 鬆 I'm not referring to leverage, I'm referring to the mind-body connection that allows us to cultivate a solid and powerful structure with minimal stiffness and maximum fluidity and responsiveness. You can feel this when pushing hands with someone who stands a lot. You can also feel it when receiving a strike or block from a xingyi or bagua practitioner. Fajin isn't only immense, it is also explosive. Yes, pushing hands is one way to practice these skills but they also develop from sensitivity and song. We also practice these in san da drills. There are analgous jin in xinigyi and bagua as well as yiquan. They take different forms, eg xingyi animal forms, bagua palm changes, etc... Yes, also from circle walking, palm changes, two person partner drills in taiji, xingyi, and bagua, sticking hands in wing chun, standing postures, etc... Agreed

Interesting to read this discussion of fajin. One thing worth mentioning is that fajin is not unique to taijiquan. It is a core technique in xingyiquan, yiquan, bajiquan, liuhebafa, baguazhang, and even wing chun. Slow motion forms are primarily found in taijiquan. On the other hand, each of these arts places emphasis, to varying degrees, on standing meditation of one sort or another. I haven't studied all of the above arts but I have trained in taiji, xingyi, bagua, and wing chun. In my own experience, standing is one of the most important ingredients in developing fajin, as well as other jin, eg. coiling, pushing, folding, hidden, wave, revolving, and so on. It seems this is because standing cultivates song, a strong yet flexible and responsive structure along with mind-body integration. Standing can also be a wonderful method of healing the body. In my experience, the power of fajin comes from the proper development of the body, listening and sensing skills, timing, whole body coordination through the waist and kua, rooting skill, and perhaps most of all, awareness, which underlies all of the above. Of course breathing is important but once one develops proper breathing habits, the breath should be forgotten, eg. allowed to breath itself. As important as breathing is, too much attention to it can be limiting or a distraction. In my opinion and experience, there is nothing magical about jin, nothing that can't be explained by physics and careful observation. The most difficult part is having the patience and persistence in practice as there are no short cuts.

My general approach is to be quiet and listen for a while. I truly want to understand others' perspectives. If I think it is worthwhile, eg they are interested and willing to listen, then I'll present my perspective. If I don't think they're really interested in hearing and considering an alternative position I will usually disengage. I have no interest in escalating. Opinions just aren't that important.

While I don't want to discourage you, I would not recommend starting with something like spontaneous qigong. Practices that are rooted in spontaneity are the most vulnerable to our feelings of self-consciousness and to distraction. For true spontaneous movement to express itself the mind needs to be calm and comfortable, resting, alert, and very open. The one technique my internal martial arts teacher suggested I always do in private was a spontaneous movement practice. While I've played around with it a bit in public, on the beach, it is indeed difficult to really let go and be fully open and sensitive in such circumstances, at least for me. I think it's better to focus on a set pattern of movement as an anchor to the attention when the surroundings have a tendency to distract.

My martial arts relationship started in grade school, about 50 years ago. I studied a Japanese style for several years, Shorinjiryu. During my college and graduate years I studied Wing Chun. When I hit ~ 40, I began my study of taiji, xingyi, and bagua - mostly taiji, and have stuck with that for the past 20 years. At this point I’ve given up any real martial training and just focus on taiji form practice and some qigong. I also try to keep up the circle walking and occasionally revisit some of my earlier styles. My main motivation now is health and fitness. Anymore I run and walk more than practicing martial arts to be honest.

I think it is something we need to approach based on our level of comfort. If the feelings of self-consciousness interfere with the ability to relax and concentrate, I would practice inside. I have gotten to the point where I am comfortable practicing qigong, zhan zhuang, and internal martial arts forms in public, I even meet up with some others and practice pushing hands occasionally in public. I recommend you practice early in the morning or after sundown as it could help with the embarrassment. Over time, as you feel more confidence in and benefit from your practice, you may be more comfortable practicing in front of others. The most important thing is to be able to really engage and focus on the practice.

One caution I want to mention is to be aware of the possibility that this sort of practice may become an abstraction, a spiritual bypass. It is easy to think we feel unconditional love and compassion for "all sentient beings" at an intellectual, conceptual level. Far more challenging to actually feel that way in the heart, in the gut, especially with people with whom we have emotional history. There are too many practitioners who love all sentient beings with all of their heart but won't talk to an estranged sibling, or get very emotionally reactive to a parent or child or an ex. One suggestion I have is to focus this sort of loving-kindness practice on those closest to us first, then it tends to be more genuine and it leads to more meaningful and tangible positive change in our lives. Start with people we really love unconditionally, or at least with fewer conditions. As we get better at it and it feels more natural, we can then extend the practice to those who challenge us, even to those we despise. The key for me is empathy. Once we can release the reactivity and feel open and warm with our family and friends, especially those who set us off, and with ourselves; it's relatively easy to love strangers, all sentient beings, but it doesn't necessarily work the other way around.

Hanging out here one might reasonably conclude the ultimate goal of neidan is to piss off Dao Bums!

Chemistry is cool, so is physics!

Here is an excerpt from one of CP's papers that has a nice discussion of the mechanics of fajin: https://medcraveonline.com/IJCAM/a-scientific-perspective-of-neijin-internal-strength.html#:~:text=Explosive release of,liveliness of maneuverability. For me, his description of the mechanics is in line with my experience and shows a clear synthesis of physics and neuroscience in examining taijiquan and neijin magic.

I studied taijiquan with CP Ong in the Washington DC area for a time. CP is a dedicated practitioner and disciple of Chen Xiaowang and Chen Zhenglei and a great guy. His background is in mathematics and he is committed to examining the mechanics of taiji techniques and effects. Check out this link with his publications, you may find some of them interesting: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Cp-Ong-2