doc benway

Hi illumairen and chaugnar, I haven't read this thread but can recommend the teachings of two masters that help bridge the gap between Christianity and other traditions, particularly Asian, at least for me. Anthony Demello was an enlightened master, Jesuit, raised Hindu, and trained psychologist. To show just how deep he was, all of his writings were banned as heresy by Joseph Ratzinger before he became Pope Benedict XVI. Demello's book Awareness is a favorite, as a collection of his talks called Wake Up to Life (of which Awareness is an exerpt). Both changed my life. John O'Donohue was a priest who left the order to return to Celtic roots and dove into spirituality through deeply personal teachings and wonderfully evocative poetry. Anam Cara and Wisdom of the Celtic World are fine examples of his teachings and art. There are others but these are my two favorites. A few quotes: “As soon as you look at the world through an ideology you are finished. No reality fits an ideology. Life is beyond that. … That is why people are always searching for a meaning to life… Meaning is only found when you go beyond meaning. Life only makes sense when you perceive it as mystery and it makes no sense to the conceptualizing mind.”― Anthony de Mello "And if you want a point of departure for this new journey of soul, don't choose an intention, don't choose a prayer, don't choose a therapy, and don't choose a spiritual method. Look inwards and discover a point of contradiction within yourself. Stay faithful to the aura and presence of the contradiction. Hold it gently in your embrace and ask it what it wants to teach you." ---- John O'Donohue

Part of my practice and view is here - Vision is mind - my life experience is my own creation. Five lines, if understood, take me directly from anger to non-dual bliss. Why not choose to chill?

As is often the case, Yueya has summarized the issues in a way that is clear, concise, and useful in terms of practical application. Thank you!

You? Ridiculous!

I rarely read more than a few words of Everything's posts, unless they're uncharacteristically short. I do read little snippets when others quote him. I simply don't have the time or patience to slog through his train of thought posts, they're a bit like reading Faulkner - probably full of good stuff but too long and rambling to be accessible to me. That said, I feel no drive to request he be banned. I am free to block him or simply skip his posts. I don't feel threatened by him nor do I feel he has any major negative influence on the board. Just my $.02... Peace

I agree with you about the teachings. The teachings of Dzogchen, in my experience, are not so much to show us what it is but rather to point out how we block it, our misconceptions. Even our experience of things like rigpa or spaciousness are not so much an experience of what it is but rather an experience of the release of something that was obstructing us, if that makes any sense. They do sometimes offer examples and point out signs of realization to help measure our progress. These examples are not so much to try and capture it in concept or words but rather to highlight a particular characteristic usually obscured by our ignorance - ma rigpa, not knowing. Some of the common examples used to help point out the Natural State are - - a mirror: just like a mirror can reflect any appearance without being altered in any way, nothing that we experience in our lives can change or alter the Nature of Mind in any way. Who we are is more like the mirror and less like the appearances. - the sky: our Nature of Mind is without any boundary, fully open, no definable center or perspective, no edge. Nothing can stain it, it holds on t nothing. - a candle: our Nature is self illuminating, self sustaining, the light of knowing eliminates the darkness of ignorance, a candle illuminates itself and all around it. And there are lots more like this. In the Dzogchen teachings I've received it's nearly always about the personal aspect of realization, rarely attempting to define reality from a metaphysical or phenomenal perspective. All of that is done in the sutric teachings of Buddhism. Trying to learn through the conceptual mind separates us from truth more than it brings us closer, from the Dzogchen perspective. Simply resting the mind is the only thing that brings us closer. I find rigpa to be over emphasized in discussions and even teachings on Dzogchen. So many people seem to be too attached to "understanding" it and the result is to objectify it. It is one of three aspects of what we call Nature or the Nature of Mind or the Natural State. It's the aspect that is not ignorant. It is the Self-Aware aspect that knows the truth, that knows itself, that sees itself. It is the opposite of ma-rigpa which means ignorance, not knowing our Natural State. We can speak of it from our personal perspective, which is never fully separate from our relative reality which is anchored to this body and this life. We can also speak of it from it's own perspective which transcends individual lives and minds. This is the basis for different "levels" - there are no levels, that is very misleading IMO. Rigpa simply means Knowing and in a Dzogchen context, that Knowing is very specific it is knowing one's true nature, the Natural State. Another characteristic of the Natural State which is equally important and never separate from the Knowing aspect, is Emptiness. My teacher prefers words like Space and Spaciousness because the English word Emptiness often leads people to a nihilistic view. The Empty aspect refers to the realization that the "I" that we equate with who we are is fictitious, it is a mental construct. When we see through it, when it no longer is the insidious and pervasive controller of our lives, we have realized Emptiness. We are Empty of the false sense of self with which we identify and develop a relationship, an identity, that is anchored in the Natural State. Not only are we Empty of a limited, defined self; all things and all beings are equally Empty, even the Natural State itself. The realization of this is nothing more or less than a true realization of non-duality. The third aspect of Nature is referred to as Union or Tsal - energy. The Empty aspect is never separate from the Self-Knowing (rigpa) aspect and this is known as Union. Realization of this Union allows us to be in a state which I think is essentially equivalent to Wu Wei - non-interference. The illusory "I" does not get in the way. This allows the infinite potential of us as humans, as the conduit of a much deeper and more subtle intelligence unfettered by the limited mind, to emerge. This is the source of the term Dzogchen - everything needed is already there, the enlightened qualities are already perfected, we simply need to get out of the way. We do not create, induce, or even facilitate, we just get out of the way without losing connection. In that space, anything and everything is possible, effortlessly. I don't mean to sound overly pedantic but felt like sharing more than my earlier response to the OP. I also wonder if my words are of any value. It's so easy to talk the talk but what we need is to actually do the work of doing nothing at all and see what all these words are pointing at. The experience will bring confidence and confidence will bring stability. Then we need to integrate that into everything in our lives. Well said 'If you want to know the truth of something, be neither for nor against.' I like that and would add... 'simply leave it as it is.' Comparing all of this to the even more complex architecture of the Daoist view inevitably gets us deeper and deeper into the analytical space of mind. I think Taomeow's quotation regarding Yuan Shen is very helpful to see what aspects of reality those two words are chosen to represent. There is much overlap between the Buddhist and Daost paradigms, particularly when we whittle away the details and get more and more to looking at the moon rather than the fingers which point to it. But I would advise caution in seeking to equate concepts and labels in Buddhism and Daoism. When you experience what each are guiding us to and truly see the parallels and equivalence from the perspective of the absolute (non-duality), then it is easy to talk about how they are alike and how they differ. Until then, I question the value and accuracy of such comparisons. If you know a little about music and musical notation, this analogy may be useful. Music can be represented by different forms of notation - standard notation, tablature, MIDI, graphical representations, hand positions, etc... We can study a piece of music through analyzing all of the different forms of notation, we can study the composer, the historical context, all of that. And no matter how deeply we understand all of that, it will never be the same as simply listening to and hearing the music. I hope everyone enjoys the glorious weekend!

Me too! And I think that's the best reason to share! That is essentially the core of Dzogchen - complete perfection, effortless action. Everything is already there, we just block it by trying. Let go, open, and whatever is needed will come. It really does work but it takes a lot of time to learn to trust it. Wu wei is essentially the view and practice of Dzogchen for me.

To get a sense of the answer to these questions there is only one thing you can do. Personal practice, hands on, fully engaged until you get a sense of what is being indicated by these labels and concepts. I wonder how many have a sense of what is being indicated, what is being asked of us? The practice is not to think, not to compare, not to understand, just to be exactly as you are without adding, subtracting, or following anything. What is necessary is to have the view. That is the Dzogchen method and it is also where my Daoist training took me only in a more roundabout, exhaustive sort of way. Direct introduction, present in both Dzogchen and Daoist paths, is to guide the student to have this direct, personal experience, and helping them to be sure of it. The next step is familiarity and stability. Once there, it is clear what these labels and concepts represent. But "understanding" the labels and concepts doesn't really help much, unless undertaken in a very rigorous, exhaustive, and comprehensive manner. My Daoist training was only ever practical, never theoretical. My Bön training has been the same. Deepest gratitude to my teachers for that! To start looking for answers to questions about the concepts and labels and what they mean just tends to steer me away from what they are pointing to, so I've mostly given up on that. I feel like I'm sounding a bit arrogant or dismissive and I don't mean to be. But that's all I've got for now... Sending love to all in this holiday season!

I miss Marbles. He was such a grounding influence here. His presence was never overpowering but always engaged. I particularly liked to see how his materialistic view softened over time. I could literally see him opening up towards the end, entertaining new possibilities. Thanks for remembering Anand. I will try to join you all on Sunday.

Buddhism, like every other spiritual tradition on earth, has been stained by a long history of patriarchal misogyny. As in some other traditions, this is evolving. I know little about the Pure Land traditions and have little interest in argument. I follow the Yungdrung Bön tradition so my words are influenced by the Tibetan tradition and my primary practice is Dzogchen. In this paradigm, Buddha transcends gender. Buddhamind exists within all sentient beings. The Yungdrung Bön tradition embraces many female figures - deities, dakinis, and realized masters. They have also created a training program for women to become geshes (equivalent to a PhD in Western education), and fully accredited to teach. Overall things are improving for women in Buddhism and Bön, but there is still a long way to go, IMO. Here is a wonderful book about realized female masters in the Bön tradition - https://www.amazon.com/Heart-Essence-Khandro-Experiential-Lineage-Holders/dp/8170262828/ref=sr_1_2?qid=1575132307&refinements=p_27%3AYongdzin+Lopon+Tenzin+Namdak+Rinpoche&s=books&sr=1-2&text=Yongdzin+Lopon+Tenzin+Namdak+Rinpoche

Polish women are my nemesis...

It seems that lots of women have that power over me... It makes Drew’s ‘super power’ seem somewhat pedestrian. Then again, maybe it’s just me. 🤪

So many times I’ve crafted responses in my head, here and elsewhere, to so many topics. So often I see more value in silence when I craft the response with my heart.

I wasn’t planning to see it but now I must!

My Daoist teacher from Taiwan recommended a telephone book. Haven't seen one of those in a while, and they're a lot smaller than they used to be! The type of cushion depends a great deal on your body. What posture do you use for your practice, how tall are you, how flexible are you? The cushion needs to be able to support a stable and erect posture. Different people need different supports. I personally prefer a rectangular cushion filled with buckwheat hulls. It's fairly firm but easy to adjust the height a bit as needed depending on how my legs are feelings on any given day. The more flexible your hips, the thinner a cushion you will require. Regarding color, my Daoist teacher tended to avoid white, black, and green due to Chinese cultural themes. I personally don't think color matters beyond aesthetics.

I would love to hear from Chunyi Lin just how accurate are all the statements he is credited with on this site...

I find it humorous to read the narrow-minded and dogmatic proclamations about this or that tool, this or that method... We all need different things and this changes with time. It's nice to see that people find something they think is working for them. Not so nice to see when they are not changing or growing, just becoming infatuated with another object.

I suspect it is as much punitive as "investigative." These type of people don't seem much interested in law and justice, just fear and intimidation.

Nothing else feels like a run in nature for me... so primal, so perfect.

And I’m a yang metal rat! 🐭 Thanks for the horoscope.

Anger, attachment, and ignorance (not knowing one’s true self)

Running

I guess I'm a little untraditional also in that I don't merely accept the concept or truth of a soul, whether individual or collective. Not that I disbelieve necessarily, it's more that we have not defined the term sufficiently for me to accept and build on that definition. The soul from the Judeo-Christian-Islamic perspective is far different than the formulation from the Bönpo perspective, for example. This is a rather long exposition but very interesting and unique if one is interested in alternative ideas about 'soul' Questions like the one in the OP are somewhat arbitrary, meaning that they are relational. If I toss a ball in the air does the ball leave my hand or does my hand leave the ball? It's all a matter of perspective, both are accurate and neither is more correct than the other. I like to toy with conceptual questions like this sometimes, eg, does consciousness reside in the person or does the person reside in consciousness? Such intellectual exercises are fun, sometimes productive, sometimes not; at the end of the day there is only so much value for me regarding conceptual rumination. The mind will never run out of ideas, comparisons, judgements, decisions...

Taijiquan was my introduction