doc benway

My perspective on meditation differs front freeform. Hard to know about Spotless as he hasn’t defined it clearly. With respect for others’ opinions, I’d like to offer my own. Meditation as I use the word is not the “absence of thought or any movement of mind.” Thoughts and movement of mind are a normal characteristic of the human condition and will be with us until death. Meditation is when thoughts and movement of the mind do not disturb the ability to rest in open presence, that very resting in fully open presence is meditation. Thoughts come and go and there is no one there to engage, follow, suppress, or elaborate. There are stages one can observe. At the stage of “meditation” as I suspect Spotless is using the label, thoughts and activity of mind are compared to snowflakes falling on the ocean. As soon as they arise, they dissolve with no effort whatsoever and the stability of the meditation is untouched. The stage before that is likened to sunshine melting frost, activity arises and the practitioner is aware and then rests in open awareness, permitting the activity to liberate. There is a very subtle doing there, I refer to it as effort. At earlier stages a variety of methods are used to liberate the activity but more effort is needed and until the effort is no longer needed, it is appropriate. All of this is meditation in my usage of the label. I respect others’ preferences to restrict the meaning of the word but I personally find it more supportive for beginning and intermediate practitioners to be more inclusive with the terminology. In the beginning it is useful to exert effort to quiet the mind in order to realize the mind’s nature, as opposed to what we usually experience which is its contents and activity. To have the expectation that all thought and movement of mind cease completely is an error in the view, in my opinion.

Meditation is my core essence It is as it is, highly nutritious and healing both I actively engage whenever not engaged and remember, then reconnect and continue That is my experience Yes, changing and growing with peaks and valleys and storms and sunlight. Practices fluid and responsive to need. At times I pursue it, at others it pursues me, and best of all is when we are For me the formal practice is a refuge and a gift, healer and healed, the Five Wisdoms. I integrate with the Nature as often as possible but life intervenes with me. Practice deepens the connection and leads to progressively more subtle and fertile places. Beyond the releasing and falling away is opportunity for ripening and full expression of perfected qualities. My life and practice unfold together in surprising and wonderful ways.

Sending you love and hugs my friend.

My father was very harsh and demanding when I was young. Very quick to anger but also easy to hug and kiss. The rare beating was difficult. Even more painful when he accidentally broke my nose with a baseball. I was so hurt and angry! Each night at dinner he would vent and criticize, leave the table in anger and slam his bedroom door. He would get furious if he heard my music, sometimes breaking my radio or instruments. And yet I never felt unloved. As he has aged he has softened. He is now drifting slowly into dementia and becoming very warm and open. At first, I didn't know how to be with this new person. It felt alien and a little uncertain to connect. It is getting easier and more joyful to be with him, to be more intimate. I wish we lived closer. I know he will be gone relatively soon and cherish what little time we have left together.

I was taught that the martial methods came first, derived from necessity and practicality. The philosophical overlay and specialization came later, be it xingyiquan, baguazhang, taijiquan, or others. The lofty ideas of zodiac, Buddhism, heavenly mountains, and all of that, served as memory aids, elevated the status of practices, made them seem more legitimate or desirable to potential students and so forth. I also can't prove this but it feels true to me. Edited to add: The number 13 comes from the combining of 8 methods and 5 directions - Peng, lu, ji, an, cai, lie, zhou, kao Forward, back, left, right, center

And guard your heart well The source from which springs boundless And eternal joy

I cared so much because the inner alchemy is a direct and powerful path toward personal transformation. The philosophical and religious facets of Daoism simply don't offer the same opportunity. How is one to tell if they are ready? We generally don't really know until we try. Often a teacher can help us with that question but even they don't know for sure. If one starts at the beginning, with an experienced guide, most are ready. I disagree, I think many are ready to engage in true practice if they are willing to make a commitment and start at the appropriate place. If you are referring to practicing based on reading books, watching videos, and playing in internet forums then I fully agree, perhaps 1 in a million are ready for that. I think there is so much talk because there is so little action for many. For the dedicated practitioners who connect with a teacher and lineage, there is generally a lot less talk. There is still value for talk, however, to the extent that it can be mutually supportive on our paths. Just some random thoughts on the matter this beautiful morning after a brief but intense personal retreat.

Not non-martial but can be practiced as such - Chen silk reeling. Not explicitly moving but a treasure trove of subtle movement with deeper attention - zhan zhuang. Not non- martial but deceptively subtle and peaceful - yi quan.

I've always resonated with the term cultivation, possibly because my spiritual practices grew out of martial arts training. The "me" that came to these practices, both martial and spiritual, was looking for something better - health, fitness, security, contentment, physical attractiveness, happiness, peace - the list can go on and on. This was the intent and as my realization deepens and broadens, it adjusts accordingly but never entirely departs (at least not yet). What I have cultivated are any qualities or skills that support my values and vision, like cultivating seeds of edible and nutritious plants in a garden and weeding out the chaff. Eventually, a blessing of realization may occur that the one who is putting the effort into cultivating something is that which must be released to fully open into unlimited potential. Then the cultivation can be termed "non-cultivation" which indicates a more mature path and the ultimate need for a release of that effort and intent. For most of us there are many stages of transformation or growth leading to this point (at least there was for me) and this mind of cultivation that seeks to allow positive qualities to blossom and grow is necessary and valuable. For some perhaps, simply resting into being is all that is ever necessary. I often remind myself to be cautious as more often than not, people in the latter category are fooling themselves much of the time.

‘If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite.’ ~ William Blake

My preparatory practice is clearing the channels and chakras through breath, intent, and body movement. My core practice is resting in the nature of mind.

Dissolving is an excellent method, releasing all effort. Looking back especially towards the one who is releasing and seeing through that one, cutting through all those layers of misidentification, limitation. What’s next is precisely identifying and continuing in that state of rest. Recognizing when one departs and returning. Even the most moving experiences and visions are ultimately a departure. The state is not different from the view, the practice, or the result. It is important to distinguish the state of resting from all subtle conceptual constructs about it. It will develop and blossom into something very full and rich with infinite potential, never dull for an instant. The key is in direct connection.

What a wonderful discussion! _/\_

Two new ones

I think the two are related when you look at it. It's one of the things Krishnamurti invites us to explore in ourselves. I did that for a long time. Time is the movement of thought and the reflective quality that looks back and forward.

There’s truth there but I think it goes deeper. While I can’t say with complete certainty, humans seem to possess a self-reflective capacity that is expressed in words and thought which is not obvious in birds and ants. Does a bird stress over the clarity and beauty of its song or an ant its scent? Perhaps but I’ve not seen evidence of that.

It seems to me that precisely the need and capacity to ask these very questions is what makes us human.

Wow...

To me it means that I do not see the world as it is, I see the world as I am.

I was a Daoist practitioner for over a decade until discovering Bön, which changed my life. Now I'm a committed Bön practitioner and no longer practice anything else. My core practices are 9 Breathings of Purification, Tsa Lung, Guru Yoga, abiding in the Natural State, and support practices from the Zhang Zhung Nyen Gyud. I engage in a variety of other practices as well, all from the Bön teachings. If I had to pick a favorite, or most important practice, it would be my daily informal practice - integrating the Nature of Mind into day to day activity and relationships. It is such a powerful and challenging practice! A lifetime practice.

Hmmm... Hákarl or Hrútspungar? I'd rather fast.

I can understand and respect your criticism. On the other hand, English Bon resources are so rare I'm thrilled it is available and very appreciative to have it. Definitely a good idea to get some personalized instruction, if possible.

There is a wonderful new English resource for channel and chakra practices from the Bön Mother Tantra: http://www.lulu.com/shop/tsultrim-tenzin-and-dmitry-ermakov-and-yungdrung-rabten-and-carol-ermakova/magyu-tsalung-tummo/paperback/product-23946284.html

Well said, You made perfect sense. Another aspect is that everything we experience and interact with is colored by our conditioning, expectations, and life experience. This is the basis for the teachings on the 6 realms. No two people experience the world in the same way. It’s not the world that is different to each observer, it is the observer that influences the experience..