doc benway

It's not a matter of wanting to be reincarnated. More a matter of accepting reincarnation as a normal part of the cyclical experience of life and death. What they do strive for, one could certainly say want, is a favorable birth in the next life to permit continued study and practice of Dharma. On the Dzogchen path of Buddhism, the objective is complete liberation in this lifetime, in order to more effectively benefit others. Just my limited understanding.

There is little that is more supportive to me than cultivating a feeling of gratitude. I'm grateful for the DaoBums, those of you who contribute, and those of you who moderate our insanity. Warm wishes for the holidays to everyone.

The wise man sees this The spaciousness of being What we see is us

We see things as we are, not as they are

I think it's a matter of how we're taught and how we approach the practice. Speaking of vitality...

You are plucked up!

If you have energy trapped in your head and kundalini psychosis, I would recommend you work with a teacher or healer. Continuing unsupervised energy practices is likely to make matters worse for you.

I think there are several reasons for the OP's observation - - Our expectations are not always satisfied, or realistic - True masters don't often publish videos of their practice - Can the radiation of vitality be transmitted through low quality video? I've seen video of masters and met them personally and the experience of personal presence is a whole different ballgame - Qigong and taiji masters are still human, they live, they get sick, and they die No question IME that these practices offer profound benefits and enhance vitality but such benefits are best assessed through personal practice.

If we're tossing around words, I'll play a bit... I like the word 'liberated' which implies simply releasing and allowing, more precisely 'self-liberated.' Destruction implies effort and duality to my ear, and an ending but mind endlessly arises in the living. And it will self-liberate if we allow it. Detachment for me suggests disconnection which is not the Way. Non-attachment sounds better for me than detachment.

And nearly every one of those people leading difficult lives continue to hold on to life when threatened or nearing the end. My experience has been that people in the most challenging situations are often the most appreciative of life. I've known some people who have attempted suicide and failed, living with serious physical disabilities as a consequence (blindness, paralysis), and they were some of the most grateful people I've ever encountered for their opportunity to live. Also the most generous. People with terminal illness are generally the most thankful for whatever little time they have left to live. The poorest folks I've ever met are often the most content. I suspect that on our deathbeds we will look back over our lives with many emotions at the core of which is the feeling that, whatever else has come and gone, life itself is fundamentally good and difficult to let go. Sure we could have made a different decision about this or that, we may wish we weren't subjected to a particular set of circumstances, but we have this priceless and transient opportunity to experience this world and everything in it and our potential is limited only by our thoughts. At least that's how I feel at this moment. I'm feeling very thankful for my life today, and for all of you jokers and lovers here at the Bums! It's very good to be alive today.

Stimulating topic for discussion, thanks dwai. Important texts such as the Dao De Jing are multi-dimensional. What we learn from them is as dependent on how we approach them as what words are there, particularly texts written in a language as ambiguous as Chinese. I would suggest that anyone interested in a broader perspective of the DDJ simply follow dwai's grand-master's advice and give it a try. If he took the time to recommend this style of study, there's probably something to it. We have a tendency to analyze and judge methods, based on our bias and conditioning, not knowing what they may yield, rather than simply try things with an open mind and see what comes of it for us. We already know what we already know, being open we may learn something new. Reading discussion on why this approach may be better or worse, appropriate or misguided, is far less interesting to me than reading how people interpret the chapters from this new and unusual perspective and whether it adds to our individual and collective understanding. I challenge people to focus more on discussing the chapters through this new eye in this thread rather than judging the merits of the method without even trying. IMO, Dao De Jing is not a social manuscript, a guide for ruling a country, a philosophy, or a manual of internal alchemy. It is a marvelously insightful poem that can accommodate whatever perspective we bring to it and enrich our lives in limitless ways. On a related note, I'd like to share something. A teacher recently suggested to me reading anything important 3 times in 3 different ways - 1. Read through as you would anything else to get a general sense of the subject 2. Read the entire thing aloud, to yourself or another (this is really interesting and I highly recommend giving it a try) 3. Read line by line, thoughtfully and carefully digesting and attempting to integrate what is there in your day to day life

Are you glad to be alive?

I think we are capable of creating conceptual constructs of things we've experienced and things we have not. I resist speculating about what happens upon reaching a conceptual projection... I see little credibility or value there.

How could it be otherwise? I've yet to have a direct personal experience of the rainbow body, therefore I am limited to creating a conceptual construct. I project my limited understanding, expectations, and bias onto this conceptual framework and accept whatever that is as a belief or a representation of something I have not, and possibly never will, experience.

The title of this thread sounds like a title for a Trey Parker/Matt Stone cartoon!

Thanks for the clarification. I'm not referring to the rainbow body... another conceptual construct. I'm referring to described qualities of the Natural State in Dzogchen tantras, and to personal experience. Certainly there are conceptual and experiential differences from paradigm to paradigm and from individual to individual. There are also profound similarities. We can choose to emphasize either on any given Sunday... Happy Sunday!

I find Dream and Sleep Yoga practices immensely valuable and satisfying. Like Zen Pig says, you need a lot of patience but better not to take it too seriously, better to be a little playful. If we're going to spend 1/3 of our lives asleep, why not choose lucidity over ignorance?

I question the opinions of historians and scholars regarding the objectives of spiritual practice, and suggest everyone does the same! They use words like immortal vs emptiness, as if they were pointing in different directions, having defined those words conceptually but not having had the realization themselves. They have no frame of reference to have credibility. We're talking about the results of spiritual practice. That is best learned from a master or practitioner. Practitioners are aimed at following the instructions of their discipline, being fully open to whatever manifests as the experience and results of their practice, and are generally discouraged from being focused on a conceptual fabrication of the endgame. Both Daoist and Buddhist masters are cautious not to bias their students, at least that's been my personal experience. It is a very personal and experiential matter. Nevertheless, did you know that immortality is a quality of emptiness in the Dzogchen tantras? Conversely, emptiness is a characteristic of immortality, as is evidenced by your wiki quotation. In fact, all of the descriptive terms used in your wiki quote are used in the Dzogchen tantras to describe the Nature of Mind, except perhaps vacancy, as that might imply a sense of disconnection - too nihilistic. I wouldn't use that word nor have I heard it used... direct, experiential connection is at the core of all of these practices.

No, not in my opinion. The implied contradiction is simply the conceptual mind wrestling with its inability to grasp emptiness. Constructs like "immortal spirit" and sundry Buddhist definitions of emptiness are simply conceptual projections. A direct realization of emptiness allows one to reconcile the different paradigms quite easily.

If you take the Buddhist definition above and apply it to the individual practitioner, emptiness of self, it's pretty similar to the Taoist definition above. At the end of the day, the emptiness of the individual is what matters.

Equally useful is the empty space that allows the presence of the wall

One profound insight... practice! Follow the basic instruction precisely. Don't overthink it or get too caught up in expectations, goals, or projections. Keep your mind fully open and connected to the body, the breath, the ground, the surroundings, let thoughts come and go as they please. It is very meditative, allow it to work its magic on you. It bears some similarity to the taijiquan slow forms and is valuable for deepening connection - between mind and breath, breath and body, body and environment. This is how to develop insight and precision working with this kata, not by listening to or reading about what others experience, through committed and precise practice. I practiced Sanchin in the context of comprehensive martial training and meditation practice so it's a bit difficult to tease out particular effects and attribute them to Sanchin alone.

I practiced Sanchin no kata for quite a while, maybe 10 years. I found it very valuable for developing rooting, toughness, and clarity of mind.

In theory, elders and leaders are bastions of wisdom and experience. In life, abstractions like theory break down.

A little off topic but, in the same vein, I have recently observed a tendency to think that others are less intelligent based on a whole host of factors - age, gender, race, political ideology, religious belief and devotion, appearance, education, profession or lack of same, geographical location, and so on... While there is a tendency to consider myself to be sophisticated and cultivated enough to look beyond such things, be open-minded, and non-judgmental; close, unflinching, and careful observation reveals some surprising things. I was recently at an intensive meditation retreat combined with small group discussion sessions and it showed me some subtle but real judgments and bias towards the people in my group. Once I opened up and listened with as little inner noise (eg judgment, bias, inner dialogue) as possible, I was astounded by just how much value there was in taking in what each person offered - each brought a completely unique perspective and in embracing each one my own limits and boundaries weakened, broadening my own perspective. The result was a very deep sense of appreciation for each individual and a developing sense of community in the group that continues to deepen even weeks after the retreat concluded. For the first time, I'm beginning to understand the power of community in a spiritual context.