doc benway

I didn’t feel wronged, no apology necessary but I do appreciate the gesture.

I have my moments!

Or maybe he is laughing maniacally...

Not at all, fruition means far more than achieving the rainbow body. It's like playing a musical instrument. One can learn, practice, improve, and enrich one's life, and the lives of others, without ever playing Carnegie Hall or getting a recording contract. My practice has had such significant, tangible benefits in my life that I am living that fruition to whatever degree I am capable here and now. Perhaps I will dissolve into light at the time of my death, more likely not, and that doesn't discourage me at all. Fruition in Dzogchen, in the A-Tri and Zhangzhung Nyengyud teachings (2 of the 3 Bön Dzogchen cycles of teachings), refers to manifesting the 3 Kayas in this life. The furthest and rarest extreme is to achieve the Jalus but none of the teachers I've studied with have ever emphasized that or spent much time discussing it, it is something that may or may not manifest depending on our karma. Not only has no Western student achieved this, no Bönpo practitioner in the 20th century has achieved it other than Shardza Tashi Gyaltsen. It's not something I concern myself with. Focusing on something that may or may not happen decades from now is far more a distraction than a support. Whenever someone asks about it in retreat, Rinpoche tends to chuckle and suggest we not concern ourselves too much with that but rather focus on our current practice at our current level of progress. That's more than enough for me.

They are a succinct meditation instruction, a pith instruction, like a lighthouse. They keep me moving in the right direction and provide illumination in the darkness. I've had several, my root teacher is Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche. About 12 years of dedicated Daoist practice followed by 6 years practicing Yungdrung Bön with TWR. I've found my spiritual home and lifelong practice in Bön. The comment about less uncertainty earlier primarily refers to the differences I've experienced in the two traditions. I just finished a delicious breakfast of kippered salmon, buttered jalapeño bagel, tomato, and onion. And I was able to run a mile yesterday pain free (!) after a month hiatus due to a stress fracture in my heel. So I'm very excited about getting back to running. Would you like to share similar personal information about yourself?

Excellent question. I guess I'm expressing my own positive experiences with my practice. Compared to other traditions I've been exposed to, I feel far less uncertainty about the overall path - view, meditation, conduct, fruition

Yes, they are words but not weasel words (eg intentionally misleading or ambiguous). They are precise instructions for Dzogchen meditation. When subject-object distinction collapses, this is referred to as resting in the nature of mind.

In my view, the self transcends the duality of subject and object. It transcends divisions and labels. Our views are a bit different on this point, perhaps.

Of a mountain sky I sing boundless clarity There is no echo

It's interesting that this is your impression of Buddhism. Mine is the opposite, I've not encountered a spiritual tradition with a more well-defined step by step path or less uncertainty. I guess that's why there are different approaches, we all need something different to help us along the way. Buddha never posited that there is no self, that's a common misunderstanding. When asked point blank if the self exists, his response was silence. The point in Buddhism is to personally investigate what the self actually is in our experience. If we look deeply enough we may realize that many of our assumptions are mistaken. Yes, it is the "self" that is working towards a goal, but that "self" is a misinterpretation of reality. Your carpenter is a good example of the Buddhist approach. Practice a step by step path and see if the results in your life reinforce the practice. Nothing to believe, no magic, just common sense and observation. If it works, continue on. If not, let it go and move on. The reason to begin like this is that Buddha's objective was to help relieve suffering. With that objective, where else would one start? Can you really look at the world around you, your own life, and claim there is no suffering? Buddhism is not theory or academia, it is ordinary, logical practice - right action, right vocation, right speech, Vajrayana practices, Dzogchen, etc... The theory is secondary. Some certainly get wrapped up in the theory but that was not the original intention. The instruction is to give the methods a try and see if it works for you. If not, let it go and find something else.

"If I hadn't done what I didn't need to do, I wouldn't know I didn't need to do it." ~ Peter Fenner For some, a lifetime of practice does not bring realization. For others, it may happen spontaneously in an instant. It happened like that to a friend of mine at age 8... Imagine how intense that was for an 8 year old! I don't think there is a way to do it, I think it is a blessing.

My feeling is that a lama and the ancient teachings need no supplement. The Dzogchen method is precise and comprehensive. Mind altering substances are generally an interference, especially in the early stages, as we are attempting to connect directly to the most pure and clear level of awareness possible. In more advanced Dzogchen practice, the ability to rest with stability in the nature of mind is brought off the cushion and into every aspect of life. This is referred to as proper conduct. There comes a time when we bring this even to the most challenging situations, which could certainly include periods of intoxication, in order to deepen the practice and strengthen stability. I have no personal experience with DMT or Ayahuasca but I do have some experience with other entheogens. They can be very effective tools in helping the right person, under the right circumstances, to open but that is only a part of the process. They fragment and destabilize our illusion of reality. This gives us an opportunity to go deeper but does not necessarily guide us directly towards the clear and pure nature of mind, especially without expert guidance. Opening through entheogens is also far more shocking and potentially traumatic than opening through gradual meditation practice. The lama, on the other hand, also helps us to break down our illusion of reality but through a gradual and progressive process. Once that opening has occurred, they then help us to recognize with precision a much more profound realization of self. Entheogens are not capable of doing that, as far as I am aware but I am no expert on the subject.

Yes Hmind equates to "mind itself" and the "mind's nature" is the nature or essence of the Hmind

Sure... The single most important step on the Dzogchen path is definitively and decisively recognizing the mind's nature and clearly distinguishing that from the mind itself. If this is not accomplished with precision, all future practice will be compromised. It is therefore no surprise that the masters and lineage holders of the tradition do not leave such an important point to the beginner, and to chance, without direct guidance and confirmation. They consider the stakes to be very high - total liberation. It's not so much that the lama gives the student something they didn't already have, they simply point us in the right direction, giving us tools to help us come closer, correcting the trajectory when needed, so that we have a direct, precise, and decisive experience of the mind's nature. Once we have that, we can develop confidence in our realization and the method and build on that foundation independently. A small error in the early stages leads to progressive deviation from the proper view and path.

This statement could make for a good debate but I don't want to derail the thread. I'll bite - I think one of the more straightforward paths one can follow is Dzogchen. The basis of Dzogchen is that there is nothing to be done to achieve realization, you are already there, you're just distracted. It is simply a matter of resting body, speech, and mind enough to recognize the truth; and then stabilizing that realization so that it can be a part of every waking, sleeping, and dying moment. It's not at all easy, it's not for everyone, but it is very straightforward.

I like your granny. I also like the advice of Father Anthony Demello - 'It's not selfish to live your life the way you see fit, selfishness is expecting me to live my life the way you see fit.' Warm regards LimA

Does it matter?

Excellent and important point, Rocky. It's not my intention to define truth or equate it with experience or perception. I think the distinction between belief and faith is more about finding balance between conceptual and non-conceptual directions in our spiritual practices.

The light is awareness and attention which is nearly always turned outward towards the "outside" world. Turning that light around means to focus our awareness and attention inward.

I can reconcile the two in my life and mind. I think it’s all a matter of our expectations and needs as conceptual beings.

Rebirth can refer to any transition, moment to moment, day to day, lifetime to lifetime. In the sutric traditions there is more focus on accumulating merit for other lifetimes. The Pure Lands are very far away! In the trantric tradition you transform into the deity and abide in Pure Lands in this and future lifetimes. In the dzogchen tradition you simply realize inherent Purity in every moment, in every situation. It is here, it is now! ~ Peter Gabriel

I'm no authority but will offer one perspective - Purity refers to freedom from ignorance, it refers to the primordial, unelaborated essence of being. Purity is thus related to wisdom. When wisdom arises in a practitioner, they are said to have Pure Vision. When the world is "experienced" through Pure Vision, one sees the underlying spontaneous and unelaborated perfection of our natural state of being in everything one encounters. Everything is in its place, all is well... Thus the Pure Lands are the lands of the Buddhas and Bodhisatvas. The Pure Lands dawn with the arising of the Three Kayas. They are not somewhere else, they are here and now.

I think noticing that tendency is all you need to do and maintaining that awareness. Permit a brief rant. My approach is to be with it when it comes up and trust that it will change, if it needs to change, when the circumstances are right. The one who feels not authentic or simply unsure,the one who needs to change something, is the very obstacle to that authenticity. IMO, authenticity is spontaneous by definition (ziran) and manifests when the narrator, the thinker, the planner, and the doer rest. What’s left is openness, listening, allowing it to be as it is without resistance or forced action. That’s wu wei - non interference. When it runs its course, if allowed to, it will liberate. If an action is needed, it will happen. Trust that and rest completely connected to the moment - body, speech, and mind.

I would suggest that if you don't feel vulnerable and unsure sometimes, you are not paying attention or not being honest with yourself. It's a necessary experience in becoming aware and a marker along the way.

Can't seem to find it on ESPN.