doc benway

It's very normal to have experiences of fear and vulnerability if you are practicing vipassana. The world as you know it and the "you" as you know him/her is changing. The old sense of reality gets shaken and ultimately breaks apart. It can be gentle for some and highly traumatic for others, and I highly recommend having the support of an experienced guide or teacher for anyone practicing vipassana. The good news is that once you settle into what lies beneath the veneer you will be far stronger and self-sufficient. In my opinion, it's worth the candle but it's not for everyone. It's very good to hear you are also doing vinyasa and taijiquan, both of which can help ground you in the body and balance the initially destabilizing effects of vipassana.

I just want to say how impressed with this thread. I'm not much of a history buff myself but it is important and cudos to your knowledge and commitment, Apech. _/\_

I assume that question is directed at me. Before I answer, can I ask if you actively practice meditation? If so, what is your practice and tradition? It will help me to respond effectively. Thanks

Some of the "crazy talk" is simply a different perspective. It sounds crazy if we do not yet see the world and the teachings through that perspective. Some of that refers to culture and some to our own level of spiritual development. I mean no disrespect, none of us understands everything contained within the teachings - certainly not me. Buddha does not die because Buddha has never been born. Buddha does not refer to the bag of skin that is born, dies, and decays nor to the personality that inhabits it. Buddha is the awakening of self-illuminated, unbounded spaciousness within that bag of skin and personality. The body dies, the personality dies, but awakening presence does not. Rebirth is a sticky wicket for many but it is easier to grasp when one sees the truth of sunyata and dependent origination. My teacher helped me to be more accepting of aspects of the teachings that don't speak to me. He freely admits there is much he doesn't understand contained within the teachings. Rather than look at it as wrong or crazy, he invites us to recognize our own limitations in understanding and cultivate a degree of trust in the wisdom of the lineage and an interest in gaining a deeper and more comprehensive understanding over time through patient study and practice. It's also important to acknowledge that not everyone is suited for every path and if the path does not speak to us it is OK to take a different one. The Dalai Lama often recommends we take from Buddhism what works for us and not be too concerned with what doesn't. It's not an all or none proposition, even though there are those who would have us believe it must be.

Yes, no methods are nearly as effective as we would like them to be and yet all have their place for the right person at the right time in their lives. Thank you CT for presenting such a wonderful point of discussion and it's wonderful to see all the helpful and insightful input. It has helped me to see a little deeper into the subtle elements of the Judeo-Christian paradigm that are ingrained in my thought and behavior. Similarly, I would expect an Indian or Chinese who has adopted Christianity to be influenced to some degree by their exposure to principles of karma and Confuscian values... Each of us has to work with what we have, who we are, and where we are at this moment. We can adopt a set of practices and ideology from a foreign land and culture but we can't simply step out of our deep seated values and beliefs as if they were an old pair of socks. Just like one can't expect someone just beginning to walk the sutric path to allow all of their challenges to self-liberate, those of us with Western backgrounds on the Buddhist path can't simply ignore our culture and religious foundation and act and feel as if we were born in Tibet or Thailand. If we feel wronged, that is what we have to work with and forgiveness is an appropriate and effective tool. As we begin to be transformed by our practices, our feelings of being wronged and the need to forgive will lessen. Feeling wronged gives way to feeling as if our karma is playing out as a lively display of the base. Feeling the desire to forgive gives way to simply letting go of our identification with the one who feels wronged and that lively energy can liberate without effort. Even within Buddhism there are profound differences in how we respond to challenges. Just like a Buddhist doesn't feel the need to forgive, the Dzogchenpa doesn't feel the need to renounce. So it is wonderful to look back at my reaction to the OP that got this discussion rolling and see my resistance, my defensiveness, my desire to be right, and so forth. It wasn't all that powerful but those things were definitely there. I've been extremely busy at work this past week and haven't read all of the posts but look forward to catching up over the weekend. I feel like this line of discussion has helped me have a little deeper understanding of Buddhism, the Western mind, and myself and for that I am grateful. _/\__/\__/\_

I agree that Dogen's words are beautiful and I see them as describing my practice accurately but I may be interpreting them in a slightly different way. For me "finding your place where you are" can be seen as the dawning of rigpa - the self-knowing quality of the natural state. The precise knowledge of one's true nature, empty and self-illuminated. "Finding your way at this moment" can be seen as discovering the true practice, practice without a practitioner, non-meditation. Two observations - 1. The first quotation you offer does not necessarily imply happenstance for me. I can practice intensely and through that effort find myself in that place where true practice occurs. After all we're talking about a master of Zen who stressed the importance of formal sitting. Rather than look at it as happenstance, I interpret this as reaching a point where we let go of the one who is practicing, see through the illusion of identifying with that one. That is not usually a random happenstance. This happens after many years of dedicated practice. Although I will acknowledge that, for me, the discovery of this true nature does not necessarily occur as a result of even the most ardent practice and may occur spontaneously for the newbie or non-practitioner. There is a component of karma and blessing present. Nevertheless, I believe Dogen believed strongly in the value of zazen to help reach this point. 2. The mind, in my paradigm, does not actualize anything. It is an observer that takes credit where none is due. It is not the true doer. Only when we see this and let go of the false identification with mind does actualization occur. We may be using the word 'mind' differently. I know there are differences between the Dzogchen and Zen paradigms regarding mind and its nature.

I'm not familiar with Dogen's terminology so I can't say for sure that I understand his intent. I've read a bit of his writings and your post is stimulating me to want to read more. You mention "finding your place where you are" and "finding your way at this moment." Resting in the nature of mind is primarily about releasing all identification with the you and yet maintaining a deep connection to the present moment. It is very alive and engaged yet dis-identified, unrestricted, undefined, unfabricated, and unconceptualized. I find it relates strongly to Wu Wei. I suspect it is what Dogen is pointing to. It does not mean physical, mental, or emotional inactivity although the early stages of practice occur during formal seated meditation. It is far easier to discover the difference between the mind and its essence when inactive. With certainty and stability, it is then possible to bring this practice to all activities of waking life, sleep, dream, and death - that is the practice. I do think there are strong similarities between what I'm describing and what Dogen is referring to.

I can only speak from a Dzogchen perspective as that is what I do. Each and every time something negative arises where I may feel that I have been wronged or treated unfairly, I leave it as it is. I stay with the feeling without engaging or rejecting, and it softens and ultimately liberates. For me, whether scripturally supported or not, there is an element of forgiveness there. While the Buddhas and Bodhistavas are beyond judgement, it still arises in me and the practice of forgiving feels right. Perhaps one day I will transcend the need but for now I embrace the mindset when needed.

"The Buddha's approach to the problems of suffering is not imaginary, speculative or metaphysical, but essentially empirical." I would argue that sincere forgiveness is an empirically effective tool one can use to address the suffering of oneself and others. All arguments I've seen to the contrary seem more theoretical than practical.

Ironic that he would write of tonglen in "Forgiveness is not Buddhist." "In this practice, we imagine taking in the pain, illness, negativity, confusion, and ignorance of others, freeing them from those afflictions, and then sending to them the joy, health, goodness, good fortune, well-being, and understanding that we experience in our own lives, giving it all away so that they may enjoy it, too." What is forgiveness if not tonglen?

Forgiveness is an interesting and valuable practice for some. My teacher tells a story of one of his students who lost her husband and 2 children in a bombing in Mumbai several years back. While the experience was obviously devastating, she reached a point in her recovery where she traveled to India herself to meet with the bomber in prison and express her forgiveness to him. She felt that this was a necessary step in allowing herself to move forward. Part of her act was compassion towards the perpetrator and part was compassion towards herself. Her story really sticks with me. She ultimately reached a point where her life took a totally different direction, a direction she would never have gone had the attack not claimed her family. In some ways she said that she found out who she really was in a way she'd never known while occupying the role of wife and mother.

Big thanks to yugephoenix! I woke up this morning and did not want to get out of bed. I recalled reading this thread and it helped... _/\_

I'm not an I Ching practitioner but I am a (mediocre) guitarist. Carlo Domeniconi, one of my favorite composers for classical guitar, has composed a set of short pieces for the guitar based on I Ching. He threw the stalks and came up with each piece based on the result. On the 8th throw, the result told him to stop. They're recorded on a wonderful disc of Chinese and Chinese-inspired guitar music played by Xuefei Yang called Si Ji (Four Seasons). The movements are on the CD are T'ai, Lin, T'ung len, Huan, K'uei, Chieh. The 7th was not recorded. Highly recommended!

PS - from the composers notes on the score, it was more than the titles that came from the result. The results were both the titles and the inspiration for the compositions.

I'm not aware of any specific health benefits. In my tradition it's used to help us recognize the essence of mind and how all experience arises from that.

Welcome stovepipe, Meditative visions and experiences are, generally speaking, not very important. They are simply distractions of the mind, much like non-meditative experiences. The best way to handle them is to let them be as they are, don't engage, don't push away, just notice they are there and continue to practice. If this approach doesn't work you could try meditating with your eyes open. In my tradition we are routinely encouraged to do so. It may take some time to adjust but if you are able to make the transition you may find it takes your practice to the next level. Good luck in your practice. Steve

Synchronicity is amazing... Yesterday I was looking at a video on travel to Norway on my laptop sitting across from my wife who couldn't see or hear what I was watching. She looks up out of nowhere and starts talking about taking a trip to Norway... Blew me away.

Sorry I just noticed this. It has not yet been published to my knowledge. A few years ago I sent an email to Domeniconi's publisher asking about it. They told me it had not yet been published and didn't know when that might happen. A few weeks later they sent me another email with a handwritten score attached and told me the maestro wanted me to have a copy! Send them an email, you may get lucky as well: [email protected] Warning - it's pretty challenging stuff to play but so worth it for me. I haven't played any of them for a while, this may get me to take another look. Thanks for bumping the thread! Here it is from that list, it's so long I'm not surprised you overlooked it: Opus 114 Yi Jing (I Ching) (Berlin, 2003) 23 min Solo guitar. Modern guitar music in 7 movements with Chinese influence. The titles of the movements were chosen using I Ching sticks. The piece Yi Jing, I Ging or I Ching, was written for the Chinese virtuoso Yang Xuefei. Tuning: C-G-d-g-h-e. I haven't come across any recordings or videos other than the CD by Xuefei Yang.

While most qigong forms are done with equal weight distribution, it is certainly not all. Shiba Luohan Qigong has several single leg stance postures as well as some weight shifting in postures. I think a rule of thumb is that health based qigong is more likely to be 'double-weighted' whereas martial qigong (this would include bagua and shiba luohan) are more likely incorporate more physically challenging postures including single leg and 'single-weighted' stances.

omelet

taste

chrematonomy

For anyone interested in the Six Lamps book I mentioned earlier, I just came across an upcoming retreat on this teaching that will be offered in May in Connecticut by Chongtul Rinpoche - https://www.bonshenling.org/six-lamps-retreat.

I have a slightly different perspective on zhiné that I'd like to share. Others may have had different instruction. I've never had instruction in the Buddhist Dzogchen lineages so there may be differences, but I doubt they are significant other than with respect to the iconography. My comments are based on instruction in two different Dzogchen lineages in the Yungdrung Bön tradition: A Khrid (Teachings that Guide One to the Primordial State) and Zhangzhung Nyengyüd (Oral Transmission of Zhang Zhung). Zhiné means calm abiding. In fact, calm abiding is the result of the practice rather than the practice itself. In the beginning we tend to be neither very calm nor abiding, we are struggling with continual distraction of the mind, discomfort from the practice, grasping at the object, and so forth. The practice of zhiné starts with intense and unwavering concentration. It is very effortful at first for most people because of the power and lifelong inertia of the thinking mind. We start with concentrating on a specific object. With time we can maintain continual connection to the object with less and less effort. Once we reach the point where we can let go of effort completely without losing connection we have achieved zhiné (calm abiding) and are ready to practice without an object. Once again we start with exerting some degree of effort to maintain connection without the support of an object and need to work towards being able to let go of all effort without losing connection to the present moment. Zhiné is not technically considered a preliminary in the A Krid or Zhangzhung Nyengyüd cycles, it is considered a pointing out instruction. The preliminaries include practices of guru yoga, impermanence, refuge, bodhicitta, confession, mandala offerings, prostration, mantras, and so forth. In both systems, the ngöndro are completed first, followed by rushen practices. These are practices that help to distinguish between samsaric experience and more pure experience. These are a second level of preliminary practice. Next comes the introduction to the nature of mind. In both A Khrid and Zhangzhung Nyengud, zhiné is used to introduce the student to the nature of mind. First zhiné allows us to look at the mind itself. While trying to focus on the object, the mind continually grasps at other things - thoughts, memories, visual effects, sounds, bodily sensations. Everything that arises is mind. As we become more familiar with looking at the mind, we begin to be able to distinguish the discursive mind from its essence, the nature of mind. Then when we develop certainty in this distinction through practice and feedback from the teacher, we continue to practice zhiné to develop stability in resting in the nature of mind. Once we have that stability and can rest in the nature of mind without distraction, without the need for an object, and without any effort whatsoever, we are essentially beginning to practice Dzogchen.

Just bought it. Also just bought The Book of Dust, the first book in a new trilogy that is a follow up to Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials. This will be the most fiction I've read in some time... Looking forward to it. Thanks for the suggestion.