doc benway

What benefits are you referring to?

Great posts! Thank you for that. Forgive me for being critical but I would urge caution whenever using the word 'real' in the context of Buddhism, particularly Madhyamaka. Empty does not refute realness, it refutes an independent, inherent mode of existence. One can equally look at the mode of one's existence as empty (sunya) or full (pratiyasamutpada). Different sides of the same coin. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I think the point is worth making because so many people new to the concepts misinterpret them as nihilistic. I couldn't agree more about Goenka's approach but I'm interested in hearing more about your concerns with secular mindfulness in general.

I thoroughly enjoy humor, especially in tense or contentious situations. In most cases it's a welcome relief. In some cases it can appear trite or unnecessary, but I recognize that's only my reaction to it. Others may find the same post hilarious. If I find myself reacting negatively to something humorous, that's a red flag that I need to look inside and see what is causing so much reactivity and seriousness in me. One of the benefits of participating in this forum is that it allows me to look at myself more deeply based on how I respond to others. I try to ask myself questions like - why am I posting this? What role is my ego playing? Why can't I let go even if the other party can't or won't see me point? And so on... It really has been helpful to work on this over the years and for that I'm appreciative of all of you.

I don't know about the book. Briefly - Theravada, most popular in southeast Asia, focuses on the Pali canon of scriptures (the oldest Buddhist writings) and emphasizes personal, individual liberation. Mahayana, most popular in northern Asia, includes the Pali canon and later writings, particularly those on emptiness, Buddha nature, and the way of the Bodhisattva. Here the emphasis is on personal liberation as a means to support all sentient beings in their transition towards ultimate liberation. Vajrayana is a subset of Mahayana, although some list it as a third branch, which emphasizes energetic practices of self-transformation, as opposed to the sutric approach of renunciation, in order to achieve more rapid personal liberation with the ultimate goal of helping all sentient beings to be liberated from suffering. It's primarily found in the Himalayas and is based on writings known as Tantras. I hope that's helpful.

PS - most of my formal training and practice has been Daoist but in recent years I've focused more on Bönpo teachings and practices, and I don't claim to be an authority on either

The challenge of reconciling rebirth with our personal views is that the teaching of rebirth comes from the perspective of the absolute, the non-dual. At least that is how I see it. From this perspective there is no individual, separate self, that is an illusion. Hence every birth is a rebirth, not of one particular collection of memories and conditioning, but of the that which is - sentience, knowing. Every being that comes out of this world feels it is "me." The subjective point of reference is a common experience among all sentient beings. That is what is reborn - me. While we are alive, we take action based on choices that affects the things and people around us. As new life blossoms, it is unavoidably affected by the wake of our choices so in that sense, the consequences of our actions affect our next life. Again, we need to look at this from the non-dual point of view and the effects of our actions affect us, over and over again. From the non-dual perspective, if I hurt any living creature i hurt myself. When we try to reconcile the idea of rebirth from the relative, individual perspective it all breaks down, at least for me. We need to begin proposing all sorts of explanations for things and run into paradox and gratuitous assertions. I don't find it of much value to look at it from that perspective, although many people do. We all need different things at different times in our lives and if rebirth is challenging us enough and we feel like we're not penetrating it, I think it's fine to put it aside. We have enough to work with and practice, that we don't need to deal with everything, at least not at this moment. But if we do feel drawn to the topic, I think the place to start is to look at what it is that is reborn? What is before life and after death? What's in between, meaning who is asking these questions? If we can find the answer to that, we find the secret to rebirth.

Not sure you can have one without the other... If a baby is born and represents some sort of transmutation it is not a de novo manifestation. It is something being reborn as something new. It's really just a matter of semantics, so it seems to me.

The number one (non-human) killer in Africa is the hippo. The second is the mosquito.

A formidable topic and one with which you should exercise enormous patience and persistence. I recently attended a retreat in which the topic was discussed in some detail. The teachings from which the retreat was drawn have been fully translated into English and recently published as: Pith Instructions for A Khrid rDzogs Chen by Gurung and Brown. The latter chapters in the book touch on the subject in eloquent and unambiguous ways which help me to internalize the principles a bit more deeply. There are lots of other things you can read but I would urge you to consider working with a teacher if you are really committed to this path. Trying to "understand" the 3 bodies through intellect alone is a limited approach. Practice is essential.

In addition to baggage, the insight into emptiness of self can be a depersonalizing experience which is not an uncommon symptom of psychosis. Forcing someone into that place is foolish and dangerous, IMO.

Agreed - it is truly luxurious

All Western civilization is a cancer on the face of the Earth. A destructive entity that is threatening the health of its host, our Mother, and all of her children. East, West... makes no difference. It is simple ignorance.

PS - If you like to read, the Avatamsaka sutra is a brilliant and beautiful exposition of inter-Being and emptiness using the metaphor of Indra's net

I recently heard a talk on emptiness by Thich Nhat Hanh. He began by saying, when we speak of emptiness we must first ask - empty of what? He then went on to discuss empty of self and framed it in a discussion of impermanence. Interdependence, or inter-being as TNH likes to say, and emptiness of self are two different ways to say the same thing. Not really a comprehensive view of emptiness for me. More like one characteristic of the view. Emptiness is not a realm, it is a characteristic of the base which gives rise to everything - thoughts, false-thoughts, delusions, non-delusion... Yes, no self-separate or inherent entity has ever risen nor passed away. That is a description of interdependence and absence of separation. From a biological perspective there is no such thing as an organism. There is only organism-environment, they are always inseparable. When you look inside, and outside, you cannot find any self-contained entity. All is connected in some fashion. It is all simply happening and the entire happening is your mind. One Taste occurs when the illusion of self has diminished to such a degree (eg. one approaches full realization of emptiness) that there is no judgement left. Good and bad, preferred and despised... these things no longer have an effect on the yogin who has let go of the self to a sufficient degree. It is just as the universe (or the Dao) does not judge or choose. All is as it is, there is nothing out of place or lacking, from the perspective of the absolute. So nothing is preferred or lacking for the one who has truly realized emptiness. All we can talk about is theory and conceptualization of that which transcends concept. If you want to approach the question with words, study Madhyamaka and continue to study the Prajnaparamita. Madhyamaka is a structured method which uses the intellect to undermine itself. I prefer approaching this topic through practice. That's the only way to get to the experiential part. The Prajnaparamita sutras point to absence of inherent 'self-ness' which implies inter-being. They also seem to describe the fundamental base of being - space and awareness. It is awareness which elicits form from the formless. Without ears connected to a brain there is no sound, only vibration in air. Without the organism, what would recognize an environment? For me, emptiness is a hint, a meditation instruction. It is telling me that I am not what I think I am. It is speaking directly to the me that thinks it's a me. The one investigating all of this is the opposite of emptiness, it is the self that isn't there. It is inviting me to let go of my identification with and grasping of the thoughts, emotions, and sensations. It is inviting me to let go into being. Emptiness is a view, it is the view that the one who think he is looking is also what is being seen. The view is not a concept or a vision or an explanation. It is a letting go of the one trying to "get" the view. It is the very process.

Gang ri ra wé kor wé zhing kham su In a heavenly realm, surrounded by a chain of snow mountains, Pen dang dé wa ma lü jung wé né The source of all happiness and help for beings Chenrezik wang Tenzin Gyatso yi Is Tenzin Gyatso, Chenrezik in person. Shyap pé kal gyé bar du ten gyur chik May his life be secure for hundreds of kalpas!

tit for tat, for sure predictably escalates, turn the other cheek

The truth is that after getting more deeply involved in the partner training, I no longer felt much of a need to work on the form in a completely symmetrical fashion. I do think that would be helpful if one were only working with the form.

I think there are a lot of possible explanations for the asymmetry of the form. Forms are often constructed in such a way as to make the intent less than obvious. One can develop excellent levels of integration without necessarily doing so in a completely symmetric fashion. The expectation would have been that practitioners would have ample opportunity to train both sides equally in pushing hands and self defense drills. I think we tend to over emphasize the importance of the form in the West. For many of us, it is all we have to work with. it is there to develop that mind/body/energy integration. It is not the be all, end all of taijiquan training. From a martial perspective, there is so much more. Training symmetrically is good for the body, mind, energetics, martial applications - everything, IMO.

My apologies but I'm not sure I understand the question. I do think that training physical and energetic movement in a symmetric way helps to balance the body and mind. In my training that was mostly achieved through pushing and self defense drills with a partner. If you don't have that, doing the form in a symmetrical fashion is very beneficial, IMO. Please clarify if that doesn't get at your question.

If you are making yourself smile, or do anything else, that is not it. You cannot do anything to experience it. You can't make it happen because you are the obstacle. It is what there is when you let everything go completely and just rest as you are at this very moment. If we allow ourselves to fully rest in the connection to what is presenting itself to the senses and mind at this very moment, provided it remains completely unfabricated, there arises a feeling of comfort, refuge, support, absence of judgement, instant presence, openness, spaciousness... so many descriptors, all of which are not it. A feeling of non-separation, of boundlessness, eventually arises. This is the non-duality of space and awareness which is the "source" of the warmth you are looking for. It is very subtle at first but over time we can rest more and more deeply into its embrace. Eventually we can even experience that when engaged in normal day to day activity - that takes it to another level. We can even bring that into our sleep and dreams with practice, and to our death. Do not create - let go and allow. Do not concentrate on an experience you imagine could be comparable to bliss, that is not it. If you are on the path and have not yet felt what I am talking about, you are still getting in your own way. It is right there waiting for you as Aetherous describes. You speak of observing the thought process and stopping emotion before it happens. Don't stop it - allow it to arise, allow it to be there in your experience, and if you do not engage it will naturally liberate. When it liberates, that is the moment of resting in unfabricated being. The one who pushes away emotion, the one who observes the process of thought, that one is getting in the way. Let that one rest. Most importantly - don't concern yourself with other peoples' stories of their experiences. It is of very little value, in my opinion. It is far more likely to hinder than to help most people. Far better to rest the one who is concerned with the lack of progress, if that one can relax you may see something new, something fresh, something totally uncontrived.

Caution - learning postures from a taijiquan routine and practicing them repeatedly, whether fast or slow, prepares you for nothing martially, absolutely nothing. Doing postures from the form in a martial situation is not what taijiquan is about. The form is designed to teach us to integrate the mental and physical dimensions of our experience in movement and cultivates two fundamental skills - power generation and mastery of the circle. Those are the hallmarks of taijiquan skill. As the Chen masters say: train the body [I'll add... and mind], not the tricks! Ultimately we do not rely on postures and specific techniques but energies - folding, plucking, sensing, tearing, leading to void, etc... Sure, we can always talk about the martial meaning inherent in the postures but that is not really the point, that is an intellectual exercise, especially in the early stages. Once we know how to manipulate the energy, then we can plumb the forms for all sorts of obvious, hidden, and secret techniques. We can find applications in any and all forms of body movement, be it artistic or martial in intent. What the long form does do is gives us additional ways of connecting with the energetic characteristics of more postures and, most importantly, the transitions. It also allows us to continue in that place of mental/physical integration for longer periods of time without interruption. Doing the shorter form multiple times is a little different than doing one continuous form for a much longer time. The short forms emphasize the basics, long forms add variations. All of it training the body/mind to work in an integrated fashion. If you are interested in martial application of taijiquan you need a teacher who knows how to teach you the specific methods of training to develop the circle, footwork, striking, body strengthening and toughening, qin na, shuai jiao, fa jin methods, and how to drill all of this so that you can make it really work. This means dozens (if not hundreds) of drills with partners, use of training equipment, push hands training, and so forth. Taijiquan is only a comprehensive and effective fighting art if it is taught as such, and that is a rare phenomenon. All of the training (posture, movement, mental integration, etc...) has health value but those very characteristics that are beneficial to health are training the body/mind to generate integrated power. You can get that from the long or short forms but as described previously, there are some advantages to practicing longer forms. Short forms are best for competition and practitioners who don't have the time, patience, or proclivity to commit to the full routines. As alluded to by Starjumper above, I would also highly recommend that anyone practicing taijiquan teach themselves to do the form in mirror image, especially if not working on the individual techniques regularly with partner drills, strengthening methods, and so forth. We were never taught the form in mirror image and I once asked my teacher why the form was so unbalanced. His response was, do you mean to tell me that you haven't figured out that you should be practicing both sides?! Fortunately, I'd already been working on that and could demonstrate for him.

We have heard from members here who have experienced distress after this sort of forced immersion in vipassana. And from some who have benefited deeply. I have not heard from any teachers here to my recollection. In a retreat of this nature, I would agree that a powerful and wise guide in attendance is essential. Videos and inexperienced practitioners just don't cut it...

A coworker today asked me about the safety of meditation retreats. It appears that a 25 year old woman committed suicide recently after experiencing a psychotic break during a Goenka retreat. Very unfortunate story. http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/06/york_county_suicide_megan_vogt.html

My recommendation would be to focus more on quality of local instruction and authenticity than specific method unless there is one that clearly clicks. If you are as much a purist and passionate as I am, there is almost nothing that is as exciting and rewarding as the human connection to a lineage through an accomplished and enthusiastic teacher. The only thing more powerful is the direct experience of the fruition of practice. As far as what to practice, I study taijiquan, qigong, and neigong. They naturally support and enhance one another - they are a bit like nesting dolls with neigong in the center and taiji on the outside. Taijiquan is the most physically demanding (although martial qigong can be demanding). I use qigong mostly for healing qualities. Not sure where you like to classify zhan zhuang but standing is a practice worth considering as well, in and of itself (you'll get it in Chen taiji). Also, read a little about yi quan 意拳. I've had a taste and it is amazing. It is based on the principles of xingyiquan and taijiquan which help cultivate awesome strength, and integrates a much more spontaneous and un-fabricated practice experience. I would suggest you start with one, really dig in for a while, and then add something else, if needed. Any of these disciplines is worthy of your full attention for a time. If you are very cerebral, consider starting with taijiquan (and check your intellect at the door!). It will take you more thoroughly into the body and be an excellent transition to more subtle arts.

I care... you care (presumably).... The universe cares.