doc benway

Nice quote - note that Rinpoche does not use the words natural state and rigpa interchangeably. It appears that the word rigpa is being used in this thread to refer to the natural state - that is misleading. Rigpa is a characteristic of the nature - the self-aware aspect of knowing or recognition. It is a challenging word to define and understand but conflating it with the natural state makes matters more confusing. I find this to be an important point which could ease some of the confusion about what rigpa is or is not. Sorry to interject a response here but I'm hoping this could be helpful - In the Bönpo texts, mother refers to the base (space/emptiness) and son refers to the knowing or recognition aspect - rigpa. The union of those two is called clear light - clear referring to emptiness and light referring to the pristine self-awareness. It can get particularly confusing because while clear refers to the empty aspect, the word clarity is often used to denote the awareness aspect. Too many words!

I would be happy to share a few thoughts: I discovered that healing is related to opening ourselves to the truth of who we are and what conditions we find in our lives in any given moment. In different phases in our lives there will be different challenges, and as we face those challenges, we will always be in a different place so our needs and capacities will vary. So much of our lives are wrapped up in our conditioned experience, responses, confusion, and pain. When we try to see what we need or what others need through that pain and conditioning, we get a distorted view. As a result, we may not help, we may not seek the right thing, we may do harm, or what we do may be only temporarily effective. To the extent that we are open and aware, we will have the potential for seeing what is needed in any given moment, whether we are in the role of healer or healed. This is because the openness cannot be conditioned, the awareness cannot be confused. In this open awareness we also see that healing is a mutual interaction based on connection. In healing, we will be open to being healed. In receiving healing, we will similarly be offering something back that will benefit the healer. So for me, the very core of this subject is connecting to the inner nature which is quite simply openness and awareness with which we are all connected. If I am able to connect deeply enough, I can see that all is as it is and it is OK just as it is. In any given moment, life is presenting us with an opportunity to open to all of experience and be aware. The more our conditioning relaxes and dissolves, the less there is to offer resistance. It is the resistance that is the very thing that presents the need for healing. In that awareness and acceptance, there will arise the true knowledge of what needs to change, what is capable of changing, and change will occur. May we be blessed with the opportunity and intention to help others! _/\_

Greeting everyone, I just returned from a week of retreat on sleep yoga - it's going on for another week but I was only fortunate enough to stay for the first. The object of the practice is to use sleep as a means to enter directly into the natural state. We had wonderful teachings on the subject and lots of practice. There is nothing quite like taking a nice nap in the gompa after lunch while the teacher and geshes are chanting and praying for your success! In the context of sleep yoga, the natural state is referred to as the sleep of clear light. Clear referring to the empty aspect and light referring to the knowing or awareness aspect. I'd like to offer an observation and comment on this thread - please disregard if it does not seem to be of value to you. It feels like there is too much objectification of the word rigpa occurring in this discussion and others on the forum. Rigpa is a simple word that means knowing, it is the opposite of ma rigpa which is ignorance. In the dzogchen context, that 'knowing' has a very specific focus - knowing which is innately self aware. Rigpa does not seem to me to be used in the Tibetan scriptures as an exclusive way to denote a specific state or condition but then again I am not a scholar of Tibetan. It is simply one of many words used to gently guide us in our search to recognize our true nature and, as such, indicating a specific characteristic of that nature, not the nature itself. It is my sincere wish and prayer that all of the wonderful people here be blessed with the great meaning, beyond intellect, of the primordial state free of all conditions and fabrication so that we may all be of benefit to others. I send all of you my love _/\_

A simplistic response to the OP is that our visual sense is by far the most important and the one upon which we are most dependent. We can easily create a visual representation of our experience which will be much more comprehensive and nuanced than through other senses. Thodgal practices use the visual sense largely for this reason. Theoretically, I suspect one could use the other senses if they were as highly developed and refined and played as central a role in our lives.

I think there is little value in wondering about our needs in some imagined state, particularly one as ambiguous as awakening. When that state is achieved, you will know. If not achieved, what does it matter? Others' answers won't necessarily be true for you anyway. Much better in my view for you to ask, what need is there for company in my present condition in this very moment?

I think the fundamental source of lasting healing is a deep personal realization of acceptance. That does not mean a nihilistic giving up but rather an acknowledgement that things are a certain way. We can work towards changing them when the opportunity is there and we can be OK with ourselves even if we are unable to change things to meet our expectations or desires. It's related to having an insight into our true nature and the impermanent of all things. It's not an easy thing to do, especially when we are hurting, but is very powerful and worth some consideration.

Here is another good work: https://www.amazon.com/Bo-Bon-Shamanic-Traditions-Teachings/dp/9937506115

I don't believe I've ever said a critical word about Jax. I've never read or followed his teachings and only know about him through seeing others, including yourself, criticize him. The first step towards the goal you seek is to look at yourself clearly, critically, and deeply. Until you do that, all the thodgal practice in the world will be a waste of time.

pining for her cub a youthful Chicagoan, she weeps and a wails...

enact

I think it's instructive how Jax went from the object of your derision to an authority on the relationship between Buddhism, Daoism, and thodgal in a matter of days... edited to be constructive rather than critical

I second Trunk's compliment and appreciation!

It's interesting to realize that when we hold on to bitterness, a grudge, anger, and similar feelings, they only hurt us. They do not hurt the other person. Someone else wrongs us at some point and we punish ourselves, over and over, as a result.

Speaking of translations by practitioners, this may be of interest: http://www.wisdompubs.org/book/buddhahood-life

I'd like to add a caution here - when we dream, we are in a state of duality. The dream consciousness identifies with a self and distinguishes that self from the dream environment. In fact, we generally are not even aware we are asleep. Even in lucid dreaming, there is an awareness of self and other in the dream, hence a state of duality. In sleep we are unconscious, not in a non-dual state, unless of course we have studied and mastered sleep yoga - the sleep of clear light. At least this is my understanding and experience.

You answered your own question but I do think it's important to have as stable a sleep cycle as possible, preferably with no meds, drugs, or alcohol, to get the most out of dream and sleep yoga teachings. That said, it is something we can learn in the moment and apply later when the circumstances permit. In my experience, no matter what the subject matter, Tenzin Rinpoche has a way of connecting to people in very practical ways that sometimes seem to transcend the specific subject matter of any given retreat. Glad to hear you're making progress!

Translating spiritual Tibetan texts can be quite challenging, especially Dzogchen. I am always a bit wary, especially when the translator is not an advanced practitioner. This is one reason why receiving the teachings directly from a teacher is so important. At least there is some quality control there. I recently attended a retreat on the Bön Dzogchen A-khrid teachings given by His Holiness the 33rd Menri Trizin Lungtok Tenpai Nyima Rinpoche. He focused first on the basic instructions of meditating with the A, then jumped to the concluding sessions regarding the nature of mind and decisively identifying the nature of mind and so forth, very challenging to translate. The translator was Jules Levinson, a very accomplished translator who has worked with His Holiness on many occasions, and he really struggled at times to make sense of the some of the language in the latter session. Sometimes it can be very poetic, even onomonopoetic. Other times it can be quite archaic. I must say he did a fantastic job and everyone approached the challenge with patience and humor. The first English translation of the A-khrid teachings was done by Per Kvaerne, an early Bön scholar. He could not finish the last 4 "sessions" due to the difficulty of the language and (non)concepts. Since then, Jean-Luc Achard has done an abridged translation of all 15 "sessions" which does a good job getting the message across, albeit without most of the poetry and much of the subtlety. Dan Brown, a very accomplished practitioner and translator, was at the retreat and said that his translation of the A-khrid teachings will be published soon, I believe by Wisdom Publications.

Yes, practicing during lucid dreaming is very valuable in my opinion. There are no restrictions in the dream so you have the opportunity to try some new things and expand your horizons.

Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche is offering a 2 week retreat on sleep yoga starting on 6/19/16 in Virginia. Last year he covered dream yoga. I cannot recommend it highly enough. See you there!

Thank you for that. I agree with you that there are very strong parallels in Buddhism and Daoism. Plenty of differences for sure but, at the end of the day, both are describing what we label reality and our realm of experience. And when you get down to the core, they are saying the same thing - this existence is as it is and there is no need to worry about it. The teachings of dzogchen tell us that everything is spontaneously perfected and we need do nothing - leave everything as it is. It goes on to tell us that when we really connect with this truth at a deep level, we will always do the right thing naturally. It is no different from the Daoist teachings on wu wei, de, and ziran. Both are pointing to the fact that we are really nothing more than an orifice through which the universe (or the nature of mind) is self aware and does everything, including us. We simply need to figure out how to not get in its way... In my opinion, there is no best way to approach this stuff. There are infinite ways. The best is what seems like it makes the most sense to you at this moment in time, and that can change. I can't tell anyone but myself where to start. I will say this, many people talk about finding your own path and doing it all on your own. That didn't work so well for me. I do better with an established lineage and credible teacher. There are so many ways to approach this stuff and so many ways to waste time and effort. And life is short, very short! The benefits of the lineage and teacher are multiple - a foundation of trust, others have weeded out many of the distractions and non-productive detours, an opportunity to ask questions and get support from the master, an opportunity to compare notes with others on a similar path, and so forth. And it is much easier to find credible Buddhist (and Bönpo) teachers than Daoist in my experience. If I had to pick one book (and practice) to recommend it would Awakening the Luminous Mind by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche. He presents core dzogchen (trekchod) practices in the first half of the book in an extremely accessible way. I've never worked with more powerful practices in my life. And he has lots of free support resources available. It is not about the theory and concept, but about a very direct way to experience it. Good luck!

Space - the final frontier and the greatest of healers!

Dzogchen is a funny thing, full of contradictions and paradox. The perfecting part occurs before we reach the dzogchen teachings - it is a part of the personal work we do as we embrace the preliminary practices, the sutric practices, and the tantric practices. If we are fortunate enough to encounter and realize the dzogchen teachings, we see the world in a way in which there is no need to change anything. This is why all the dzogchen teachings basically say the same thing - leave everything alone, just let things be as they are. There are some other teachings depending on which lineage you follow - for example, some emphasize teachings that show us how to develop powerful visions and challenge us to remain in the nature of mind (the dzogchen view) in the presence of such visions. Dzogchenpas don't go chasing after rainbows like some of the folks you bump into online. Most (?all) of them, however, have taken bodhisattva vows and that type of enlightened activity becomes a spontaneous and natural manifestation of the dzogchen view. We do not start out as great masters because our ignorance gets in the way. There is plenty to be achieved until one truly realizes that there is nothing to be achieved. Then it's enough to sit and laugh and leave things as they are. Even then, one may continue on the bodhisattva path because, after all, as long as we're alive we tend to be driven to do things and nothing supports our practice and happiness, and that of those around us, more than helping others. Furthermore, a deep understanding of the dzogchen view leads to the natural manifestation of enlightened qualities. The practices certainly should and do exist, it is just that they are not helpful for everyone. It certainly can be. Many folks come to the teachings without adequate preparation and do not understand or realize the teachings. Some misunderstand the intent and the teachings can actually be counter-productive for those people. In these cases, self-defeating is an accurate description but it does not describe the teachings, which are themselves fine, it describes the person who comes to the teachings without proper guidance or preparation. Dzogchen is considered the most sophisticated, advanced, and elusive of all spiritual paths in Buddhism and Bön. It is no surprise that it is not easily understood. Much more surprising actually when someone truly gets it without years or decades of study and preparation. It's not all that different from opening a book of differential equations with no foundation in calculus and just not getting it. We're talking about very advanced subject matter that requires a solid foundation in the fundamentals. Not understanding doesn't mean that differential equations are ineffective or shouldn't exist, in fact, they are just as effective whether you get it or not. Same with dzogchen, the truth to which the teachings refer is as it is whether we get it or not.

There's an interesting phenomenon that occurs regarding that feeling of restfulness vs effort. If we are doing something we really enjoy and value, it is generally effortless and restful. When we are doing something we despise, even if it is much less demanding or strenuous, we tend to feel exhausted. So I think a part of that relates to how much resistance (aversion) we feel towards the task at hand.

I'm lately getting frequent server errors as well. Then it is an issue of having to reset cache data, sometimes that works and sometimes not.