doc benway

I disagree on two points- 1. Primordially pure innate self-awareness has no gradation, only our experience of it can be said to have gradation 2. I don't see that quotation as direct introduction, just a description. Introduction uses methods to elicit the naked, non-verbal, non-conceptual experience

Yes - you are right in pointing out that these are potentially deceptive and confusing comments. I could try to clarify my interpretation and response to Wells' observation but I doubt it would be of much value to anyone. Less talk and more practice for me! Thanks for the response.

I'm not quite sure what specifically you are referring to as visual/symbolic introduction but I assume you are referring to the various pointing out instructions for the nature of mind? Please elaborate if you care to. I fully agree that the vast majority of thinking and discussion is of relatively little practical value. The Bönpos use a variety of methods to introduce the nature of mind, one of the mosts common and effective being zhiné practice with the letter ཨ This method is used in both the A-khrid and Zhangzhung Nyengyüd Dzogchen cycles. It's pretty much the same as shamatha and vipassana practice although the visual sense is so much more powerful than the tactile so that I think the method of the ཨ is much more rapidly effective, at least in my experience. It's shocking how powerful it is. Anyone truly interested in the meaning of things like the natural state and rigpa would get a lot more mileage out of zhiné than discussion and debate, IMO.

That's an excellent question and I would say that yes, every sort of consciousness or awareness is an awareness of self. The question is whether or not it is recognized as such. If that knowing or recognizing aspect (rigpa) is not present sounds, lights, and rays are seen as other and that is the basis for ignorance - ma rigpa. If visions are recognized as self, that is the knowing denoted by the word rigpa. And it is not simply an intellectual knowing, it is a direct experience of the knowing or recognition itself - very hard for me to put into words. For me, this is the better usage of the term rigpa - I think it is very misleading to use the word rigpa when what we are really referring to is the natural state. Anyone interested in this thread would probably enjoy subscribing to Jean Luc Achard's newsletter Khyung Mkhar if you don't already - http://khyungmkhar.blogspot.com/. The latest publication is a translation of the Explanation of the Water Lamp of the Far Reaching Lasso which relates to this idea of vision being a projection of self. His prices are very reasonable and he's an excellent translator of Tibetan.

Yes - provided that one is able to be and reside with certainty and stability. When that supreme blessing is elusive, there are many things that can help - prayer, mantra, mudra, ritual, and so forth. If we have no need of these things we are indeed fortunate!

Nice quote - note that Rinpoche does not use the words natural state and rigpa interchangeably. It appears that the word rigpa is being used in this thread to refer to the natural state - that is misleading. Rigpa is a characteristic of the nature - the self-aware aspect of knowing or recognition. It is a challenging word to define and understand but conflating it with the natural state makes matters more confusing. I find this to be an important point which could ease some of the confusion about what rigpa is or is not. Sorry to interject a response here but I'm hoping this could be helpful - In the Bönpo texts, mother refers to the base (space/emptiness) and son refers to the knowing or recognition aspect - rigpa. The union of those two is called clear light - clear referring to emptiness and light referring to the pristine self-awareness. It can get particularly confusing because while clear refers to the empty aspect, the word clarity is often used to denote the awareness aspect. Too many words!

I would be happy to share a few thoughts: I discovered that healing is related to opening ourselves to the truth of who we are and what conditions we find in our lives in any given moment. In different phases in our lives there will be different challenges, and as we face those challenges, we will always be in a different place so our needs and capacities will vary. So much of our lives are wrapped up in our conditioned experience, responses, confusion, and pain. When we try to see what we need or what others need through that pain and conditioning, we get a distorted view. As a result, we may not help, we may not seek the right thing, we may do harm, or what we do may be only temporarily effective. To the extent that we are open and aware, we will have the potential for seeing what is needed in any given moment, whether we are in the role of healer or healed. This is because the openness cannot be conditioned, the awareness cannot be confused. In this open awareness we also see that healing is a mutual interaction based on connection. In healing, we will be open to being healed. In receiving healing, we will similarly be offering something back that will benefit the healer. So for me, the very core of this subject is connecting to the inner nature which is quite simply openness and awareness with which we are all connected. If I am able to connect deeply enough, I can see that all is as it is and it is OK just as it is. In any given moment, life is presenting us with an opportunity to open to all of experience and be aware. The more our conditioning relaxes and dissolves, the less there is to offer resistance. It is the resistance that is the very thing that presents the need for healing. In that awareness and acceptance, there will arise the true knowledge of what needs to change, what is capable of changing, and change will occur. May we be blessed with the opportunity and intention to help others! _/\_

Greeting everyone, I just returned from a week of retreat on sleep yoga - it's going on for another week but I was only fortunate enough to stay for the first. The object of the practice is to use sleep as a means to enter directly into the natural state. We had wonderful teachings on the subject and lots of practice. There is nothing quite like taking a nice nap in the gompa after lunch while the teacher and geshes are chanting and praying for your success! In the context of sleep yoga, the natural state is referred to as the sleep of clear light. Clear referring to the empty aspect and light referring to the knowing or awareness aspect. I'd like to offer an observation and comment on this thread - please disregard if it does not seem to be of value to you. It feels like there is too much objectification of the word rigpa occurring in this discussion and others on the forum. Rigpa is a simple word that means knowing, it is the opposite of ma rigpa which is ignorance. In the dzogchen context, that 'knowing' has a very specific focus - knowing which is innately self aware. Rigpa does not seem to me to be used in the Tibetan scriptures as an exclusive way to denote a specific state or condition but then again I am not a scholar of Tibetan. It is simply one of many words used to gently guide us in our search to recognize our true nature and, as such, indicating a specific characteristic of that nature, not the nature itself. It is my sincere wish and prayer that all of the wonderful people here be blessed with the great meaning, beyond intellect, of the primordial state free of all conditions and fabrication so that we may all be of benefit to others. I send all of you my love _/\_

A simplistic response to the OP is that our visual sense is by far the most important and the one upon which we are most dependent. We can easily create a visual representation of our experience which will be much more comprehensive and nuanced than through other senses. Thodgal practices use the visual sense largely for this reason. Theoretically, I suspect one could use the other senses if they were as highly developed and refined and played as central a role in our lives.

I think there is little value in wondering about our needs in some imagined state, particularly one as ambiguous as awakening. When that state is achieved, you will know. If not achieved, what does it matter? Others' answers won't necessarily be true for you anyway. Much better in my view for you to ask, what need is there for company in my present condition in this very moment?

I think the fundamental source of lasting healing is a deep personal realization of acceptance. That does not mean a nihilistic giving up but rather an acknowledgement that things are a certain way. We can work towards changing them when the opportunity is there and we can be OK with ourselves even if we are unable to change things to meet our expectations or desires. It's related to having an insight into our true nature and the impermanent of all things. It's not an easy thing to do, especially when we are hurting, but is very powerful and worth some consideration.

Here is another good work: https://www.amazon.com/Bo-Bon-Shamanic-Traditions-Teachings/dp/9937506115

I don't believe I've ever said a critical word about Jax. I've never read or followed his teachings and only know about him through seeing others, including yourself, criticize him. The first step towards the goal you seek is to look at yourself clearly, critically, and deeply. Until you do that, all the thodgal practice in the world will be a waste of time.

pining for her cub a youthful Chicagoan, she weeps and a wails...

enact

I think it's instructive how Jax went from the object of your derision to an authority on the relationship between Buddhism, Daoism, and thodgal in a matter of days... edited to be constructive rather than critical

I second Trunk's compliment and appreciation!

It's interesting to realize that when we hold on to bitterness, a grudge, anger, and similar feelings, they only hurt us. They do not hurt the other person. Someone else wrongs us at some point and we punish ourselves, over and over, as a result.

Speaking of translations by practitioners, this may be of interest: http://www.wisdompubs.org/book/buddhahood-life

I'd like to add a caution here - when we dream, we are in a state of duality. The dream consciousness identifies with a self and distinguishes that self from the dream environment. In fact, we generally are not even aware we are asleep. Even in lucid dreaming, there is an awareness of self and other in the dream, hence a state of duality. In sleep we are unconscious, not in a non-dual state, unless of course we have studied and mastered sleep yoga - the sleep of clear light. At least this is my understanding and experience.

You answered your own question but I do think it's important to have as stable a sleep cycle as possible, preferably with no meds, drugs, or alcohol, to get the most out of dream and sleep yoga teachings. That said, it is something we can learn in the moment and apply later when the circumstances permit. In my experience, no matter what the subject matter, Tenzin Rinpoche has a way of connecting to people in very practical ways that sometimes seem to transcend the specific subject matter of any given retreat. Glad to hear you're making progress!

Translating spiritual Tibetan texts can be quite challenging, especially Dzogchen. I am always a bit wary, especially when the translator is not an advanced practitioner. This is one reason why receiving the teachings directly from a teacher is so important. At least there is some quality control there. I recently attended a retreat on the Bön Dzogchen A-khrid teachings given by His Holiness the 33rd Menri Trizin Lungtok Tenpai Nyima Rinpoche. He focused first on the basic instructions of meditating with the A, then jumped to the concluding sessions regarding the nature of mind and decisively identifying the nature of mind and so forth, very challenging to translate. The translator was Jules Levinson, a very accomplished translator who has worked with His Holiness on many occasions, and he really struggled at times to make sense of the some of the language in the latter session. Sometimes it can be very poetic, even onomonopoetic. Other times it can be quite archaic. I must say he did a fantastic job and everyone approached the challenge with patience and humor. The first English translation of the A-khrid teachings was done by Per Kvaerne, an early Bön scholar. He could not finish the last 4 "sessions" due to the difficulty of the language and (non)concepts. Since then, Jean-Luc Achard has done an abridged translation of all 15 "sessions" which does a good job getting the message across, albeit without most of the poetry and much of the subtlety. Dan Brown, a very accomplished practitioner and translator, was at the retreat and said that his translation of the A-khrid teachings will be published soon, I believe by Wisdom Publications.

Yes, practicing during lucid dreaming is very valuable in my opinion. There are no restrictions in the dream so you have the opportunity to try some new things and expand your horizons.

Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche is offering a 2 week retreat on sleep yoga starting on 6/19/16 in Virginia. Last year he covered dream yoga. I cannot recommend it highly enough. See you there!