doc benway

I enjoy the parallels between the scientific world view and the Daoist and Bön/Buddhist world view. Our reality is that we feel hard surfaces, we see and taste solid objects, clearly we live and experience a tangible reality. And yet when you look deeper into yourself or into objects you can find nothing solid, the layers of the onion peel away until there is nothing there but space and awareness (and warmth). Nothing better than a good conundrum.

deadly but so smooth I glide along the surface until the ice cracks

I've said it here a lot ...I hope...

freedom trudges on the backs of working women whose tears give birth to...

universe balanced upon the head of a pin centered everywhere

I'm not advocating any one theory as 'correct' but I'm fascinated by the Bönpo view of the soul. It's an ancient concept intertwined with Buddhist and shamanistic views. Here's a detailed discussion by Dmitry Ermakov, a scholar and practitioner of Yungdrung Bön:

If you are interested in beginning a meditation or cultivation practice, I would suggest that you find a local teacher or group to begin your journey. Most methods are best studied with expert guidance. Trying to evaluate systems and methods on your own or with anonymous internet recommendations is problematic. I suggest finding programs in your area and meeting the teacher and some students. You can learn a lot from how you are treated and how you feel to be with them. You can then do some more focused research on their program. Many will offer an inexpensive or free introductory lesson. That would be my approach.

contemplating Zen... all there is to discover vanishes at once

Welcome!

Karma is best looked at on a much larger scale than the individual, in my opinion. The traditions that speak of karma also have, at their core, a view of non-duality. From the non-dual perspective the law of karma, and reincarnation for that matter, is quite clear and obvious. From the perspective of duality, both are much less obvious.

In my opinion that would be a misinterpretation of karma. While I see very deep truth in the concept of karma, the moral aspect is an overlay of human judgement.

Good point. We can debate whether Daodejing and Zhuangzi are religious or philosophical texts. I think we can approach them as we see fit. I know and respect people who treat them both ways. Edit - and even if the word scripture is defined as a sacred writing of a religion, I would still assert that the religion is in the reader, not the document. That's just my point of view.

Not too far from Philadelphia is my good friend who has a lot to offer - www.danceswithspirit.com

If you go this summer, please contact me by PM - it would be nice to make your acquaintance.

Thanks for your comments I don't disagree, I am more concerned with our definition of power and means to achieve it as I stated - "Through connecting with the subtle, inner teacher, power will manifest. In pursuit of power explicitly, based on the desires of the ego, we are much more likely to veer off course and amass karmic consequences. " Yes, you are correct here. In the beginning stages, how would we ever want to change the status quo if there were no desire to do so? Desire is related to hope and both are very helpful along that path. Same thing with fear and aversion. It is a slippery slope, however, because the very nature of desire and aversion are a manifestation of what it is we need to overcome in our spiritual growth. At some point, we must recognize this and let both go. Until then, as you say they are useful tools. It is simply important early on to recognize them as tools that have limited utility. I agree with you fully here. I hope nothing I posted runs counter to this statement. I am not interested in celestial lala land. Self realization and engaging fully in this very life in this very time is my approach as well. I value and appreciate your thoughts. I also share your insight that anything I post is where I am at this moment and may look different tomorrow.

First, I think it is important to follow your intuition on this. If you are feeling conflicted, pay attention to that. I don't mean so much that you should analyze it intellectually but notice and respect that feeling of inner conflict and apprehension. Allow yourself to be with that feeling - open to it and listen to what it is saying to you. It is very easy for the intellect to drown out these subtle messages which I look at as a deeper, inner guidance. It is easy to rationalize those messages away in order to pursue our hunger for power or accomplishment. The spiritual path is one of the subtle, not one of power, in my opinion. Whether or not to use magick as a tool depends on your objective. As you mention, it is an excellent tool to manifest desire. On the other hand, the spiritual path is one which shows us that this very desire is a manifestation of ignorance, it reinforces our confusion and takes us off the path of spiritual growth. Through connecting with the subtle, inner teacher, power will manifest. In pursuit of power explicitly, based on the desires of the ego, we are much more likely to veer off course and amass karmic consequences. The question of whether karma is related to the intent or outcome of our actions is a tricky one. While I agree that the intent is a critical pieced of the puzzle, you cannot simply ignore consequences of our actions. In part, this is because we are rarely fully in touch with the deepest levels of our intention. It takes a lot of self discovery to realize our deepest values and motivation and to abandon those which misguide us. Furthermore, intent itself is an extremely complex thing. There are many aspects to the intention behind even simple actions. And most of those intentions are related to desire or aversion, both of which arise from fundamental ignorance. This is why the Mahayana approach in Buddhism focuses on dedicating our actions to the benefit of others. Karma is extraordinarily complex. By definition it means action, it does not mean intent. Certainly if we have genuinely pure intent and there is an accidental, unavoidable negative result, the consequences are less likely to be negative for us. However, it is extremely rare to find someone who has perfectly pure intent, therefore negative results of our actions are quite likely to lead to the generation of negative karmic traces. For example, let's say you chose to do something for a completely noble reason. And then let's say through a completely unexpected chain of unavoidable events. that initial action resulted in the death of a child. How likely is it that the child's death would have no negative affect on you? Your intent was pure but that child is dead and its family will never be the same. Imagine that they are neighbors, friends, or relatives. A deep investigation into karma not only shows us that our actions (and intent) have consequences but that the nature of those actions and intent determine how those consequences will affect us, and others. But it's not only the immediately obvious and simple connections that we can see and anticipate that have bearing on the outcome of our actions. Every living being is inter-related in some way with every other living being. Reality is a unified, non-dual inter-relationship, it is not a collection of separate, independent things. So the results of any action have so many subtle ramifications that they are impossible to anticipate accurately. This is why we often see bad things happening to good people and vice versa. We can only see a small part of the puzzle over a short period of time. I'm not saying that you should not pursue magick. I do think it is important, however, to look carefully at what it is you are looking to get out of it. If it is spiritual growth you are looking for, I'm not sure that is your best approach. Finally, I know very little of the workings of magick so please take everything I say about it with a grain of salt. Good luck to you!

The distinction between religious and philosophical Daoism is artificial and gratuitous. Religion is not in the scripture, it is in your approach to the scripture. Same for philosophy. Here's a useful outline - http://en.daoinfo.org/wiki/The_Daoist_Canon and the Taoist Treasury that Taomeow referenced is excellent. One issue is that translating such scriptures is extremely problematic. If you are not reading them in Chinese or with the guidance of a teacher, it is very easy to go astray. Good luck!

I think it's important to recognize that every response you get here, and elsewhere, is the concept of Dao as viewed through the unique and imperfect lens of other people. The closer you get to the source material on Dao and Daoism, the less coloration and potential for misinformation there will be. We each bring something different to the equation and we each need something different from it. So I would suggest that you focus on core resources like Daodejing, Zhuangzi, Liezi, and so forth for the theoretical, conceptual approach. More important, in my opinion, is that you look for a credible teacher and begin to practice Daoist meditation. It brings an entirely different perspective to the table that cannot be provided by the theory and philosophy. When I first started practicing, I asked my teacher what I should read about Daoism and he told me not to waste my time reading - to spend that time in meditation and other practices. Not everyone would agree with that approach but my Daoist teacher from Taiwan was adamant on that point. If you are unable to find a Daoist meditation teacher, any form of meditation would be helpful. Finally, looking into Daoist practices of qigong, taijiquan, baguazhang, xingyiquan, zhan zhuang, feng shui, and yijing can bring yet another perspective to the experience that will help give you a much deeper and fuller picture of Dao. Edit - I'll add a few more suggestions: Sit, stand, or walk in nature. Pay attention to everything you feel, see, hear, smell, touch, taste - that is Dao. Don't waste too much time carried here and there in your thoughts, while they are a part of it, they are simply an endless stream of narrative that is putting verbal labels on what can never be captured by labels. Sit or stand quietly and pay careful attention to your inner environment - what it feels like inside. It is much more subtle. Explore that deeply and thoroughly with patience and enthusiasm. Once again, don't allow yourself to get too carried away in thought - it drowns out the subtle inner world. That subtle, inner world is Dao. Pay attention to your relationships, how you react to, respond to, and treat other people in your life. That is Dao. Don't label all of these things, don't chop them up into convenient little concepts and boxes. All of those labels and concepts are not it, just like the words on a menu will never satisfy your hunger. Dao is everything that is possible and yet it is none of those things. It is not a thing. It's true nature is much more subtle and elusive. One must be extremely quiet and tranquil inside to come to a realization of what "it is." That will never be found in words or concepts.

Can we? On a collective level? Before we doom ourselves? When I liken the Earth to a person, the human race is behaving an awful lot like a cancer. I share your optimism on an individual level, but I am concerned about our race on the large scale.

Most of my sleep paralysis experiences have been night terrors. Through practicing dream yoga, I have had 2 occasions of becoming lucid during these episodes and was able to transform them.

It's also common in children and teenagers. I agree that it's nothing bad although I used to find it a bit unpleasant, most of the time.

Sleep paralysis is associated with drug and alcohol use and physical and mental exhaustion - anything that interferes with a natural sleep cycle. I used to experience this fairly frequently. I found that a regular meditation practice helped it to happen much less frequently. Ever since beginning to practice dream yoga, I sleep and dream better than ever and find it to be very rare.

The sky is a great teacher - sun, moon, clouds, stars, and empty space. It can show us who we are.

Yes, that is the primary focus of the book. A follow up book may be coming in the future that focuses on sleep yoga practices. They are mentioned in the book but not in much detail. The author is hosting a retreat this summer on sleep yoga practices - highly recommended!

You are correct that meditation does not work for everyone, nor do plants or synthetic intoxicants. In addition to earlier exposure to psychedelics, I will add that there is no question that some breakthroughs I've experienced were also related to powerful traumatic experiences. Few would question the fact that he was obsessed with young girls and took many photos of them, some of which were nude. His relationship with the Liddell girls was unusual at best. To me the label is not unreasonable but I'll leave it at that. I like that