doc benway

"hanging Truth out in the wind to flap around meaninglessly" sounds like a criticism but seems to me to be the whole point. There is a limit to what the conceptual mind can grasp, pointing out that limit is helpful in transcending that limit.

That seems to apply when talking about truth in dharma also. There's relative truth associated with everyday experience. There is then the philosophical level that engages, for instance, madhyamika reasoning. Then there is absolute truth which is beyond conceptual. Is it experiential? (not really as there is no experience/experiencer) Is it theoretical? (not really as it transcends concepts) It seems to be more akin to religious experience in the West. There doesn't seem to be an equivalent in Western philosophy that I am aware of but I will admit that I have very little knowledge of Western philosophy.

I think that even in English, most of what we think of as truth is relative and conditional.

I agree that he has the look of opiate addiction. If he does use opiates, he would certainly need to put a lot of emphasis on cleansing the lower intestine.

Perhaps Mr. Coffee Bean?

The person who brought this issue to light for me first was Anthony Demello. I would highly recommend listening to his CD series called Wake Up to Life. No way I could do it justice in a post but I'll touch briefly on a few key points: - We are conditioned from early childhood to be addicted to and dependent on the approval of others - first our parents, then teachers, friends, lovers, children, bosses, coworkers, and so on. Approval is as powerful as any drug. - We are under the mistaken impression that other people have the power to influence how we feel. It is so deeply ingrained that it takes a lot of time and internal investigation to see through this charade. We alone are responsible for how we feel and how we react to the world. - Society at large is constantly reinforcing this conditioning as is our own internal narration as it is self sustaining. - Like any other addiction, the problem is that we are infatuated with how it makes us feel. The only way to break free is to recognize that and find a way to let go of that dependence. Once I got a taste of this freedom, it gave me the power to continue to work towards that direction. I can't say that I am completely free but I've come a long way. The important thing is that you have identified the problem. That is huge! Most of us never see that and go through life like a monkey on a string, pulled this way and that at the whim of others. Seeing the problem and really feeling the truth of it is enough to begin to make a change. The key is awareness - watch yourself carefully and watch how you react to others. When you see this tendency, remind yourself that this is not how you want to live and things will shift for sure. Good luck

Rather than click "thank you" on all of these posts, I'll just say Thank You to all who are contributing to this thread.

I'm not quite certain what you're aiming at. My best interpretation of 'merely' is along the lines of 'simply.' I think it implies the lack of action and intention - effortlessness. Certainly, there are more accurate and deeper levels of understanding and I look forward to your, and others', thoughts.

"Nirvana is merely the exhaustion of error" I think there is a lot going on in that statement so forgive me if I'm wordy here. The choice of each word must be critical because it is a pith instruction. Therefore, it is important to recognize that much also depends on the choice of words by the translator. First, the quote suggests to me that nirvana is already with us. It is always, already right here. It is so close, we don't see it. It is hidden in plain sight. We don't create it, we don't make it happen, we don't do anything to achieve it. It is more like something is un-done and it is un-covered. Something (error) is exhausted in order to allow it to be exposed. We don't reach it through repression or suppression, we don't reach it through creation or activity. It is only when we get out of the way, due to exhaustion, that the magic happens. So it is not the 'we' who is important in the genesis of nirvana, it is exhausting the 'we' that is necessary. It seems that it is the very 'we' that obscures nirvana. It is helpful to look at the word exhaustion - it implies running out of something. What do we run out of? Perhaps the energy we put into perpetuating the error. It implies being tired, being fed up, the feeling of having had enough. The feeling of being dissatisfied with the status quo and being open and courageous enough to allow something new. What happens when we are exhausted? We rest. What happens when something is completely exhausted? It is no more. If there is a vessel that once contained whatever it is that is exhausted, that vessel becomes empty. The choice of the word 'merely' is interesting. Nirvana is generally looked at as such a high achievement or condition and yet the word merely is used. Merely is not referring to nirvana but rather to the method of reaching it. Merely is a word that suggests something trivial. It suggests simplicity. It also has the connotation of solely or exclusively. Why use that word? It suggests that there is only one way to nirvana - exhaustion. It suggests that the path is simple, trivial even. It suggests ease. What about the word error? What is the error that is being referred to? The error must be something quite comprehensive and fundamental. It must touch every aspect of our lives and experience somehow because the alternative, nirvana, is complete and absolute freedom. The absence of error is truth or perfection. So once again, this implies that truth or perfection is already here, it is already with us. We just need to get out of the way and allow it to be. So the error must be fundamentally connected to who we are or who we think we are. And when that is allowed to dissipate through the mere presence or action of exhaustion, the perfection that is already present can blossom. In other words and in summary, when the energy that is necessary to sustain the error of who we think we are is depleted through exhaustion, the truth of who we are can become evident and that truth is freedom and perfection. Sorry for all the words but I suspect one could write a book on that simple instruction. Thank you RT, you are a welcome and valued presence here. I am glad to have made your acquaintance and I hope you will continue to be a part of this community.

For me, when I am feeling disturbed, confused, lost... whatever, I find it helpful to first recognize what is happening. The thinking mind is creating all of this disturbance - the anxiety, the desire to find something, the sense of "lost touch," all of that. In actuality, there is absolutely nothing wrong and there is absolutely nothing missing. Please don't try to apply that same thinking mind to figure out what it means that nothing is wrong and nothing is missing. Just recognize that the thoughts are the problem and will never be the solution. With proper guidance they can be helpful on the path but where you are now they are not. So I would suggest that you simply look at all of these thoughts, desires, confusion, and disturbances, and simply let them be as they are. Let them come when they have to and let them go when they're ready. Don't add to them and don't wrestle with them. Don't suppress, follow, or analyze. It may be helpful to get involved in a practice that integrates mind and body, this can be very stabilizing (taijiquan, qigong, yoga, tsa lung, trul khor). It probably would be very helpful to find a guide, if you can find someone with experience and credibility. There are lots of options out there. Most of all, just be aware of what is going on inside and outside and let it be as it is. Enjoy a cup of tea thoroughly, enjoy the company of a friend or loved one, spend some time in nature. For me, spirituality is connecting with the natural world and connecting with myself. There are lots of ways to accomplish that but awareness and not struggling against the way things are is the foundation. Good luck!

For beginners, traditional seated meditation can be challenging. It is easy to get bored and distracted, especially if you are working with addiction. I don't mean to discourage you but rather help you prepare. Meditation combined with physical activity can be more effective and more accessible. Connecting the mind to the body during physical activity that is healthy for the body can be very stabilizing and supportive. In addition, integrating mind and body will lessen the effect of disturbing or unwanted mental experiences. These are more common with seated practices. With that in mind, I'd suggest a practice that integrates mind and body. Some possibilities include taijiquan, qigong, zhang zhuang, yoga (with strong meditative emphasis), and some Tibetan practices (tsa lung, trul khor). Eventually you can focus solely on the mental piece but that may be elusive in the beginning, in my experience. Most important of all is to trust in the practice and make it a high priority in your daily life. Good luck to you!

Congratulations and go get 'em! My only advice would be to keep reminding yourself to open your heart to the people who come to you for help or to learn. Especially for the ones that are difficult! Reading your post, I'm sure you already do.

Sorry to be presumptuous. Please take or leave anything I say, at your discretion. You could try to connect with a Tibetan master online. There are lots of credible masters teaching in the West. Many of them are quite connected in cyber-space and some are quite approachable. It's nice to see someone acknowledge the benefit of connecting with a credible teacher. So much time is wasted on wrong views and practices. Expert guidance is quite precious in this sort of discipline.

I like your description of the chakras. What a wonderful thing to recognize. As is everything else our experience encounters. What beautiful magic!

No, not nihilism - emptiness. There is a difference. Appearances are also empty. Saying things "really do exist" is an error of eternalism Saying things are empty is not nihilism. If the realization of emptiness is there, it is wisdom. If the realization of emptiness is not there, it is conceptualization but it is heading in the right direction. Saying that things really do not exist would be an error of nihilism. Your quote is a conceptualization of the energetic basis for visions. We clearly approach these teachings in different ways. That is fine - there are many ways to approach the material. I wish you well in your study and practice.

I think a lot of different things depending on when and where you catch me and the context. The primordial wisdom you refer to later in your post is the realization of emptiness. Believing that "they really do exist" is inconsistent with the empty nature of things that is at the heart of the Buddhist view. Our conceptualization, whatever the flavor or topic, is a label or an image, not the reality. That applies to chakras, channels, deities, etc... And, for the record, I'm absolutely convinced of the power of working with the channels and chakras, I do it in waking and dream practices daily. You can attach yourself as deeply to any model as you like... they are all conceptual constructs. And they are valuable as long as they support our practice. When the information is inaccurate or misleading or causing difficulties in your practice. Not intended as defeatist but more experiential. Sometimes the intellect can get in the way. I agree... And even greater benefits to also do the practices skillfully, with expert guidance, along with learning about them. Energetic anatomy is not a distraction and a dead end but getting hung up on it is... which is what I said. Bindi seemed to be getting blocked by the relationship of the central channel, heart chakra, 3rd eye, and crown. When the words get you tied up, I think it's good to let the words go and start with what you feel. That is my message. No you don't. The concepts are useful if they help you to connect with the natural state. If you can do it without the concepts, that is even better... more direct. No, it doesn't work that way in experiential practices. There are many people with extraordinary knowledge of taijiquan who can't push their way out of a wet paper bag. They have information but not skill, therefore no mastery of taijiquan. Many scholars have never experienced the natural state. They can't be said to have mastered anything but information! Since you mentioned dzogchen earlier, the word knowledge is often used to translate rigpa (eg Jean Luc Achard) but it's important to distinguish information from realization, both of which can be implied by the word knowledge. Having a "whole lot of knowledge" is useful when information is the currency. However, in the natural state information is a worthless currency. Yes, primordial wisdom which is the realization of emptiness. It is not the accumulation of knowledge, it is more related to letting go of all knowledge and all concepts. And much ignorance is based on the accumulation and utilization of information in an unskilful fashion. All that said, I agree that knowledge and practice are both valuable on the path, for sure. I agree! I was trying to do just that and I apologize if I came off as critical.

Lam Kam Chuen's approach is top notch. I am of the mind that, with respect to zhang zhuang, less is more. Basic standing posture is all you will ever need. If you stay with it with open mind and heart, allow the breath to deepen and lengthen, and sink qi to dan tian, everything else that needs to happen can come from there. Certainly you can learn other postures and study videos and so forth. If you take all the time you would spend watching videos and practicing multiple postures and put all of that into simple standing in any one posture, I think the benefits will be much greater. Just my $.02.

The one who wants to dissolve the delusion is the delusion itself. You can't wash blood from your hands with more blood. Without knowing anything about your system or practice, I would say that there is an opportunity here to let go. Let go of the desire to dissolve the delusion. Let go of the need to be free from the observer. Be aware of the one who has these desires, just notice that tendency, and release it. Just let everything be exactly as it is - the tension, the looker, the one who wants to get rid of the looker. They are all empty manifestations of energy, let them go and simply rest, and they will gradually weaken.

Because of the highlighted passage above. If I misinterpreted you, my apologies and it's good to hear you are respectful of the kundalini practice. Too many folks have been harmed by it. What I think I'm trying to say is that we have a tendency to superimpose a discrete mental construct on a somewhat amorphous, ever-changing reality. If we are too focused on the overlay, we naturally direct our experience to fit an expectation. This is limiting and misleading in terms of experiential possibilities. I think it is valuable to have an open mind and heart and to approach experiential practices with as few expectations as possible. After the fact, we can reflect and apply intellectual analysis and conceptual models to the experience. If we focus more on this after the experience, it is less likely to influence the experience. No question about that. The entire purpose of creating a mental image of the "subtle body" is so that it can support our practice. There is a fine line between support and distraction sometimes. I guess I'm putting that caution out there, especially in the context of a discussion of whether the central channel terminates at the crown or the 3rd eye. The correct answer is both and neither. It really doesn't matter because it is what we want it to be when and where we need it to be. The anatomy should be a description of our experience but not define that experience. At least in my admittedly limited experience and knowledge, that is the case. For sure - what really counts in our practice is how our lives and the lives of those around us can be improved by this work. Focusing on our personal (and collective) problems and opportunities is a way to see the true potential in energy practices and to keep them fresh. Focusing too much on our concept and image of what energy is, where it is flowing, and so forth has value but without the personal piece (working with the vasanas, kleshas, etc), I think we are missing a big opportunity.

I think it's important to recognize that any system of defining and labeling the energetic body is simply a convention created by human thought. There are many different systems - which is correct? All and none... No need to get hung up on energetic anatomy, that is a distraction and a dead end. Much better to start with what you feel and go from there. If this is about kundalini - that is the frame of reference you should focus on. Kundalini is not something to play with without expert guidance, IMO.

sorry

Anger is built on fear. Fear is built on ignorance. The opposite of ignorance is wisdom and in the presence of wisdom, fear dissolves. Your mind is filled with pain and confusion. This is why you can't imagine anyone deserving love and kindness. Love and kindness are a natural and integral part of who and what we are. It is the pain and confusion that obscure it and they are not capable of finding the answers to your questions. The good news is that love and kindness are always there, just waiting to be uncovered. And you know that people deserve love and kindness, otherwise you wouldn't be asking these questions and looking for help. You just can't get there from where you are right now. That will change, the fact that you are here and asking these questions is already beginning the change, but it's very subtle. You cannot force love and kindness. You cannot force your heart to open. It will happen when the conditions are right. One approach is to begin with acceptance or simply allowing things to be as they are. Allowing and acceptance are very powerful. It is OK to acknowledge that you are not feeling the openness, love, and kindness that you think you should or would like to feel. See how it feels to face that fact. Don't judge it, don't hate yourself for it, don't love yourself for it, just look at it. When you look at it, don't analyze, don't judge. Don't think about it, just stay with it. Can you feel it in the body? Is there tension there? Is there a color or smell associated with it? Do thoughts come up? Whatever it is, just allow it to be as it is and allow yourself to feel it and be with it completely. Do this in a quiet place where you can be comfortable and undisturbed for a few minutes or more. This is a good first step. Allowing it to be as it is and finding a way to be OK with that. It doesn't mean you are not going to try to change this but it means that you are going to let go of the accusations, the judgement, the self criticism and self loathing. Your answers cannot come out of the voice and thoughts of pain. They need to settle before you can find truth. Allow yourself to be as you are and find a way to be OK with that, simply let it be. If you do this for a while and are able to simply rest, being with yourself as you are, then you will notice a loosening, an openness, and eventually there will be warmth associated with that openness. That loosening, that opening is the source. Out of that warmth anything is possible. It's a start. You'd probably benefit a great deal from a good guide or spiritual friend. If you are as closed down as you suggest, having that sort of support - personal, credible support, can be very valuable. Good luck _/\_

The word unborn also captures a very specific characteristic of the natural state which really cannot be captured in any other way. Namely, that it transcends birth and death. It does not begin and does not end. It may be difficult to have a direct experience of this aspect, though not impossible, nevertheless it is an important characteristic that can be quite succinctly expressed by words like unborn and undying. One reason that identifying and labeling this, or any, characteristic is important is that it can help to distinguish an experience of the natural state as authentic.

The water accommodates the flowers quite nicely.

The Bönpos emphasize working with the subtle energies in dzogchen (and tantric) practice. The 9 Breathings of Purification, Tsa Lung, and Trul Khor are a core part of the method. Here is an upcoming online course on the subject I would highly recommend. Here is a Alternatively, there are lots of free resources available here and a great book on the subject.