doc benway

This one still does it for me, sean - http://thedaobums.com/

I like your post overall but while you and I may not be interested in metaphysical thought about self vs non-self, the sutric path certainly is. Lots of time is spent on this in philosophy training in monasteries. The debates regarding Madhyamaka vs Yogicara have gone on for centuries and are a core part of the Geshe degree, and continue to this day as is going on here. The question is, does it help? Clearly there is some value in the discursive methods but how much? I'm currently reading a very short and sweet "book" (more like pamphlet) written by Jean-Luc Achard called The Principles of the Direct Introduction to the Natural State. In it he paraphrases Jigme Lingpa in pointing out that the discursive realization achieved through such sutric debate and reasoning along the Madhyamaka path is not equivalent to the direct, non-discursive experience of the natural state experienced through proper Dzogchen practice. This question of direct experience of the natural state vs exhaustive discursive investigation and what role each plays is at the heart of the Tibetan classic - Mipham's Beacon of Certainty translated by John Petit. It's a bit of a tough read (for me anyway) but there is a more accessible version - Journey to Certainty: The Quintessence of the Dzogchen View: An Exploration of Mipham's Beacon of Certainty by Anyen Rinpoche. One of my favorite books on Buddhism. Also challenging at times but much more accessible than the core text.

To clarify my response... I'd rather speak about the benefits of Buddhist (and Bon) practice to us (and Jeff Bridges) and the world at large, rather than criticize Buddhists and Buddhism as an institution based on how some choose to interpret the teachings, be they ancient modern, teachers, or students. All religions are subject to misunderstanding and misappropriation. And we, in modern times, have the benefit of modern sensibilities informed by scientific progress which is an enormous advantage. We've been down this path of criticism many times and that has not solved the problem. All we can do is approach the teachings in the best way that we are able as individuals and use the benefits to help ourselves and those around us. I think Jeff and the dude get that... http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/6-things-we-learned-from-jeff-bridges-insightful-reddit-ama-20140725

I also find there are varying degrees of lucidity. Some are more stable and allow more methodical action. In general, there is not a lot of time for me to waste, I need to be able react immediately and engage in whatever lucid activity I choose. They key again is to set a very strong intention prior to sleep rather than trying to act on the fly during the dream. This doesn't always work but it helps.

As far as I know, the dream yoga workshops are conducted through the glidewing productions website. Last I checked the next one's date is TBA. The ligmincha.org website should have more info. Thanks for the offer - I'm pretty much married to the Bönpo approach right now. It's working for me (albeit slowly) and fits into the context of my other practices.

Really wonderful passage, CT, referring to the entire post. About this small excerpt, when those "inconceivable, naturally secret, spiritual qualities" do truly develop, they certainly can be observed as they are manifested through the compassionate, confident, and open actions of these meditators.

http://thedaobums.com/topic/37270-seeing-recognising-maintaining-ones-enlightening-potential/?p=637817

The book by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche is the book I recommended earlier. That covers the Bönpo methods quite comprehensively. The book by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu is probably quite good but I've never read it so I can't comment. Those were mentioned in post #3 I don't want to get too specific because I'm a student, not a teacher of this method and would prefer everyone learn from a more authoritative source. From the instructions I've received from Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche through his book, an online course, and a personal retreat, the way to develop stability seems to be focused on - 1. Developing more and more stability in our connection with the nature of mind through the 3 doors practices. This is the key. From the perspective of the nature of mind, dreams and waking life are on equal footing. So it is this perspective that helps us gain the freedom to be lucid in our waking life and in dreams. I suspect that the Daoist approach is similar in that meditation and qigong are doorways to this fundamental nature, as are the 3 doors. 2. Strengthening our intention to engage in and be successful with the practice through prayer and feelings of gratitude, devotion, and trust. This is a very traditional approach. The "fuel" of Tibetan Buddhist practices is both external and internal refuge. While Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche seems to be very progressive in his teaching method on the surface, I suspect that he is very traditional at heart. He seems to be doing his best to adapt tradition so that it is accessible and effective for Westerners. 3. Avoiding the error of letting our ignorance and grasping from interfering with the process. This is done through approaching the practices with a sense of playfulness along with the gratitude and trust. This is the antidote to frustration. In the morning we review the night, celebrate any success, and recommit to the practice. We do not indulge in frustration or self criticism. When those feelings arise, as they inevitably will, we acknowledge them, see them for what they are (transient thoughts, expectations, grasping), and allow them to fully be and then go back to where they came from - emptiness. I think it's very important to be careful about building up too much emphasis on success and failure, expectations and attachment to the method. The method is powerful. It will yield its bounty in its own good time based on our proclivity and dedication. If it is not yielding the type of result we want, we will have a better chance of success if we figure out how to be OK with that - it means we need to focus on our connection to the source and look more carefully at how we are doing the daytime and nighttime practices. There are more helpful suggestions regarding how to stabilize and progress in the book and if you sign up for an online workshop, you can ask Rinpoche questions directly. I don't have any experience with any other dream yoga instructions or instructors so I won't comment much on others. Rinpoche did make the point that Western teachers tend to be more focused on the content and self indulgence. The Tibetan approach always stays anchored in the mindset of working toward liberation in order to help others, the Mahayana view. All of the above is just my own personal opinion and experience. I'm not authorized or qualified to teach this stuff. Just trying to help people understand its existence, value, and availability, and answer these excellent questions as best I can. Good luck!

The practice I am describing is for anyone who has the good fortune to encounter it. I suspect your results will depend on your proclivity and dedication. I will say this - it takes a long time for some of us (me) to see meaningful progress.

What interests me is whether or not Jeff is aware of it.

Meh, I think there are much better resources for learning about dzogchen than David Wilcock. Padmasambhava embodies, and as the primary guru, represents the essence of mind. Tapihritsa is accorded a similar role among the Bönpo. This is what is being referred to by the 6 billion emanations. "He" is indeed everywhere there is sentience, much like Samantabhadra or Kuntuzangpo. Union with the guru (guru yoga) is simply the direct experience of the essence in us that is in the master, the essence of mind. It is not legend or lore - it is the direct experience of dzogchen practitioners.

You see that cultivating compassion and wisdom are very worthwhile, what is the point of following thoughts of "what if"? This is the point of Tilopa's 6 word instructions discussed in a recent thread. This is a foundational principle. If you concern yourself with your imagination of the future related to nibanna, you certainly do not have to worry about ever actually reaching it... If you focus on the practice that you see is working, before you know it the answers will begin to reveal themselves in their own good time and fashion. They already have if you SEE the cultivating compassion and wisdom are very worthwhile. Worrying about a far off, imaginary goal rather than focusing on what you can see is effective here and now is certainly "putting the cart before the horse."

Through my meditative practices and experiences, I've come to think there is an intelligence that is far greater than rational, thinking intelligence. Deeper, more comprehensive, less dependent on our programming and conditioning, less limited, and far more subtle. The tricky part is knowing when that intelligence is operational. Only you can tell if that is where this message is coming from. It is generally more present when we are quiet internally. Personally, from your description I would follow that intuition. It sounds like it feels genuine to you - that's what counts.

Wow, very powerful

It may be obvious to the intellect, but how deeply do we feel and know that. If we know that to the very core of our being, the remainder of this question would not arise. Yes, dream yoga does help with that. So many of our responses to "external stimuli" are conditioned by patterns we have inherited and developed throughout our lifetime(s). These patterns are often dysfunctional and perpetuated in un-awareness. In dreams, we have more freedom and the patterns not as strong. We are able to change the external circumstances to suit our needs in a way that we feel incapable of doing in our waking life. This can give us more confidence and more awareness in terms of how we react in our waking lives to both internal and external forces. In dream, we can also tap into and express qualities that are obscured in waking life, I mention these earlier as the 4 qualities of enlightened beings/minds. As these are more fully expressed, that can transform our lives in powerful ways. Remember that the dream yoga is not just a dream practice, it is a lifetime practice and sleep, dream, and waking. Through both the waking and sleeping practices, we are able to live more flexible, confident, and aware lives.

The main purpose is nothing less than complete liberation from samsara and nirvana in order to be of benefit to all sentient beings. Preparation for the bardo is an integral part of that. Lots of other benefits along the way.

As Jetsun points out, the observing is already always there as it is the nature of mind to be aware. Each of the six instructions is telling us to not do. Even resting must be done without effort. My teacher likes to say - effort is the exit. As all the pith instructions tell us to just leave it as it is.

Do you have a teacher? My opinion is that without a skillful teacher, it is a waste of time to practice Chinese internal martial arts.

I did have one lucid dream in which I felt myself falling asleep and was able to maintain conscious awareness during the transition from waking directly into the dream. It felt as if I dissolved into a brown, swirling wind, and I "awakened" in the dream state in a desert. It was actually the third lucid dream I had in a single night. Interesting lucid dream last night just as I fell asleep - I was in a building with a friend heading to a lecture. I stopped in the bathroom and noticed I didn't have any shoes on. It seemed strange. As I walked to the water fountain for a drink it occurred to me that I was probably dreaming. I decided to test that by trying to make myself taller. I seemed to be successful but not so much that I was sure I was asleep so I decided to try and wake myself up, and did...

I haven't been taught any herbal methods or formulas but that doesn't mean they're not used. I will say that the Bön teachings I've encountered encourage us to practice without chemical and herbal aids in general. There is nothing closer to the nature of mind than that which isn't influenced by supplements, additives, and intoxicants.

The three doors are body, speech, and mind. The practices involve connecting with stillness in the body, silence of the speech, and spaciousness of the mind/heart. Each of those are doorways to connect us to the inner refuge, the nature of mind. Here is a link to the first in a 5 part series of free videos on the topic. http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/30264539 The other parts can be found here - http://ligmincha.org/index.php/en/programs/internet-teachings-podcast.html Scroll down to March 23, 2013 - The Gift of Inner Refuge series Another way of learning the practices is through the book, Awakening the Luminous Mind. It was my first exposure to Bön and Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche and is a wonderful resource.

A bit more about the practice - There are four basic components: 1. Upon awakening we review the night's experiences, give thanks for success, be OK without it, and recommit to the practice in the coming day 2. Throughout the day we continually remind ourselves - "this is a dream", especially when confronted with challenging situations and strong emotions. And we try to connect like this at a deep level through the practice of the three doors 3. Before sleep we review the experiences of the day, purify with breathing exercises, and set a strong intention to have clear and lucid dreams through meditation and prayer 4. As we go to sleep we practice different sleeping positions, breathing, and visualizations to induce specific types of dreams related to the 4 qualities of enlightened mind - peaceful, increasing, powerful, and wrathful. Finally, as we begin to see progress, there are exercises to work on in dreams to develop and stabilize the experience further. Really good stuff but not without a fair dose of tradition. It's interesting, Rinpoche is one of the more progressive Tibetan teachers out there but in the dream teaching he maintains a fair bit of tradition. I'm beginning to think that he is actually quite traditional and that what appears to be a secularization of traditional Tibetan methods is really tradition in disguise. Happy dreams!

If you are truly feeling compassion, if the heart is fully open, and love is free-flowing, sex will simply take care of itself. If there is a true consensual need for it, it will happen naturally and lovingly. Otherwise, it will not disturb you. If you are struggling with it, then you are not open and the compassion is either not there or not genuine and complete. If you are in that place, as most of us are, then foundational practices are helpful. They cut through the thought stream and stabilize the mind.

Not true, actually...

My practice is dzogchen in the Bon lineage of Zhang Zhung Nyen Gyu. My secondary practice is Dream Yoga from the Ma Gyu Tantra. I have not found this forum to be a comfortable or supportive place to discuss specific results. I can say that the practices have profoundly impacted my life, work, and relationships in beautiful ways so I would say, yes - good results.