doc benway

You will run into many unusual, unexpected, and interesting experiences if you're new to meditation. Enjoy the ride!

We'll simply have to disagree, we clearly have different views and this territory has been covered enough for my taste. I don't want to derail this thread any longer. Thanks for the discussion.

Thought is what establishes the identity you cling to. Precisely

Until you see that the being you thought you were is empty... To put an end to ignorance Agreed

When I refer to identities, I am not referring to the "separate and individual identity" that some might refer to as "me," the illusion that there is a distinct "me" that is defined and unique and separate from everything around me. I am referring to the conglomerate of emotional and psychological responses which is defined by a particular relational context. We each have many identities. For example, a given woman is different things to different people - mother, daughter, boss, employee, lover, wife, hostage - it is all a matter of context and relationship. If my wife makes me angry, it is the identity of husband in me that creates that anger based on our specific history and set of expectations. That very same behavior would likely have a completely different effect on someone other than her husband, her sister for example. When my boss makes a comment that upsets me, it is the identity of employee that is disturbed and reactive, not the husband. And that reaction is based on how I feel as an employee, how I have been shown to be by my parents, society, etc... So that which generates the emotional response is a unique and specific identity that we have created in relationship. That identity is made of thought, memory, expectation, and generations of conditioning. We are each composed of multiple identities, each of which surfaces and guides our actions and feelings in response to particular situations. To take it a step further there are collective identities as well that transcend individual and personal boundaries - think of team mentality, nationalism, war, gender roles, football... So when we start to dissect apart our own "self" through careful observation, we find many such identities and, as manitou pointed out, when we try to grasp onto these identities, what is there to hang onto? Groups of thoughts, memories, and emotional responses? Where do they come from and where do they go? The very idea that "I" am a "separate and individual identity" is at the root of this whole attachment problem. Once the specific relational identities are recognized and lose their power, we can have a better idea of the illusion of the "separate and individual identity," the me - the big illusion.

Yes Are you working with a particular method?

I think that awareness is the most important and most practical way of letting go. It is what allows us to see what is happening. Awareness is facilitated by openness and absence of judgement. My teacher often uses the words hosting and making or giving space - which is like observation. This is key because it is not the situation or even the feeling that is the problem, it is the one feeling it - the one who is resisting. In this context, it's the one who trying to let go. What is that exactly? It is an identity that is manifest in it's relationship to the situation and the feeling. That identity is a product of conditioning and circumstances (one could use the word karma). If the situation relates to a lover or spouse, it is the identity(ies) of husband, lover, man, etc... If professional, it is the lawyer, doctor, artist... If family, the mother, brother, and perhaps most powerful of all - the spiritual seeker, any of those. We look at that identity, of what is it composed? How to pin it down, grasp a hold of it? When we see the lack of substance in that identity it loses its grasp on us. That's the level where the work of letting go is done for me.

Back to the OP, something I just came across:

I like how you said "freedom of thought" rather than "freedom from thought." Your post brings to mind Alan Watts: "We must here make a clear distinction between belief and faith, because, in general practice, belief has come to mean a state of mind which is almost the opposite of faith. Belief, as I use the word here, is the insistence that the truth is what one would “lief” or wish it to be. The believer will open his mind to the truth on the condition that it fits in with his preconceived ideas and wishes. Faith, on the other hand, is an unreserved opening of the mind to the truth, whatever it may turn out to be. Faith has no preconceptions; it is a plunge into the unknown. Belief clings, but faith lets go. In this sense of the word, faith is the essential virtue of science, and likewise of any religion that is not self-deception." For me, that faith Watts is referring to is a characteristic of the religious mind that K is referring to, whereas belief is a characteristic of the deluded and ignorant mind.

You can point to a corpse. A living person seems to be more than simply an animated corpse (well, some people anyway).

Zhuangzi speaks to how a Daoist deals with enemies in The Empty Boat.

All valid points, Bob, and certainly no need to agree with me. Unfortunately, nearly all mainstream media outlets are owned by a handful of large corporations, all of whom have strong political and economic motivation. Social media is changing that to some degree but there are limitations there as well. One problem is that we can't discriminate that which is omitted. Much media bias is created through omission which is much more insidious than the editorial slants that we usually think of as bias. There are two books to consider if you're interested in the topic - Bias: A CBS Insider Exposes How the Media Distort the News by Bernard Goldberg (which in itself is a bit conservatively biased) and The Powers That Be by David Halberstam (a bit dated but much better journalistically). In the West, I propose that the manipulation of the media is even more effective than under repressive regimes because it is is buried within the illusion of freedom. In more repressed states the manipulation is much more explicit. For sure there is the opportunity to report stories that may be lacking elsewhere, but that very communication - the choice of stories, the omission of others, the subliminal messages, the packaging, the advertising - is expertly crafted to achieve the maximum level of control and manipulation. That said, I do think the Western system is preferable - no question about that.

After the 9/11 attacks in New York, I began reading news from a variety of international sources - NY Times, Wall Street Journal, Al Jazeerah, DEBKA-file, Tass, Xinhua, BBC, Reuters, etc... They are all so readily available. What I learned is that there is no such thing as truth in news, only opinion and perspective. Until you look at a story from multiple perspectives, you really are simply at the mercy of the publisher; and they are not terribly merciful, they all have an agenda based in money and power. After having an insight into that, I gave up news for the most part - no newspapers, TV or radio news. I even stopped reading online news sources. Enough gets to me passively to have a sense of what's going on and, quite frankly, I think I'm just as educated about events if I know nothing about them as if I read or watch news reports. News has become a political and economic tool, I'd go as far to call it a weapon. In the US we have 60 Minutes to thank for that. Before that program aired, news agencies were mostly loss leaders providing a public service subsidized by advertising and entertainment. After 60 Minutes demonstrated that news could be profitable, it has BECOME entertainment and a propaganda tool. The best opportunity we have to change the world for the better is to liberate ourselves from ignorance - news reporting does not help that process, it hinders. Free yourself from propaganda, you will gain infinitely more looking inward.

Maybe not a religion in the usual sense, but defines exactly what religion is and should be in my view. Someone once said - religion is an individual's inner search for truth, everything else is politics. Unfortunately, even Buddhism can get bogged down in ritual and politics.

Going back to the taiji principles, I think the optimal response is to learn from the error - invest in that "loss." Your error was to assume your opponent would back off just because you did. She did not... a very valuable lesson. I learned it well once and my nose still has a funny bump as a result. In the long run that lesson was much more valuable than any immediate gratification from escalating the conflict could have been. It's very interesting how much we learn about people and what they're made of when we train with them in martial arts. In my experience, people have some idiosyncrasies that can be irritating, or worse, but change only very slowly over time. Confronting people and escalating conflict only seems to reinforce them. Occasionally, candid discussion can be productive but not all that often. Best to learn what people are capable of and how they tend to react, and deal with them as that information dictates.

Very nice response, CT. I'd like to focus on one area - "A trained mind knows when and how to act appropriately, under all circumstances." That knowing is quite interesting. I've come to question whether that trained mind "knows how to act" or whether the trained mind knows how to let go, such that the action occurs of itself, coming from beyond the mind as we generally know it. No matter how well trained the mind is, it remains the mind - limited and imperfect. My teacher emphasizes the connection to that space where such perfected action (given that it is occurring of itself, I think of it as non-action) comes from. Having spent quite a bit of time working with first Daoist then Buddhist (Bön) methods - I believe they are pointing in the same direction --> wu wei and perfected (enlightened) action.

I find in it an interesting approach on dealing with my own mind.

Sketchbo0k said: "I would love to learn this. Could you perhaps write a bit about it in a new thread?" Dream Yoga is becoming quite popular. There are many varieties. I practice the Bön method which comes from a very important tantra called the Ma Gyü. There are significant differences between views from different practices. In particular, western dream teachers tend to emphasize content, whereas the Tibetan approach does not concern itself too much with content. There are Tibetan practices that involved dream content but it's not important in the dream yoga practice itself. For the Tibetans, the practice is much more about recognizing the nature of dream and how that relates to our lives, deaths, and the nature of mind. The content, according to the Tibetans, is simply a reflection of the content of our daily lives, feelings, and thoughts. In the Bön view, as well as that of many shamanic and indigenous cultures, waking life is no more "real" than dream life. From the perspective of waking life, being awake seems real and the dream seems illusory. From the perspective of the bardo and the absolute, waking life is equally illusory and transient. Dream yoga trains us to become aware, in the dream state, that we are dreaming. In the dream state we are not limited by the same physical, emotional, and psychological constraints as in the waking state. Once we are able to become lucid in dream, we can use that additional freedom to change things that we have difficulty changing in our daily lives. We can take advantage of the fact that we sleep approximately 1/3 of our lives (25 - 30 years for the average person), and try to give ourselves some of that additional time to practice. If we are able to become lucid in our dreams we are more likely to be aware and mindful during our daily lives and we are more likely to be lucid at the time of our death (and beyond, if you subscribe to such notions). The ultimate goal of dream yoga is to help us move towards complete liberation so that we may be of benefit to all others. The basic method involves daytime practices for setting the proper intention upon awakening and before sleep, practices to reinforce the dream-nature of our waking state throughout the day, practices to induce certain types of dreams, and practices for developing and stabilizing lucidity in dreams. If you are interested in this, there are several ways to get instruction. The book -The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche gives a comprehensive outline of the method and practical instructions. It's all you need to get started. He also hosts online workshops on dream yoga once or twice a year through glidewing productions. More expensive but also much more supportive with personalized instruction from Rinpoche and the opportunity to connect with other practitioners in an online forum. Finally, he occasionally hosts retreats on the topic - the most recent was last month. Quite an amazing experience - he's a phenomenal teacher and knows how to connect these sometimes esoteric teachings directly to your life in a very practical way. One word of advice - this is a practice that takes a long time and lots of patience. It is very easy to get frustrated and give up. Be prepared to really make an investment and it will eventually pay off. As I mentioned, there are lots of other resources in different traditions. Alan Wallace has written a book on Tibetan dream yoga, Dreaming Yourself Awake. I can't comment on the book but Alan is also an excellent teacher. I'm hoping there are other practitioners here that will introduce their practices. Good luck and good dreaming!

You don't have to be relaxed or comfortable to meditate, you just have to be willing to notice that you are not relaxed and comfortable and spend some time with that feeling. It's fine to start with shorter practices, just try to do it more frequently. If you're having trouble with the sitting you could try standing or walking. I would second liminal luke's suggestion - a good teacher can make all the difference and a stable meditation practice is worth the investment, IMO.

I think there is a relatively easy was to approach this issue. Personal practice. Whether we aspire to liberate ourselves or liberate ourselves with the express intention of liberating all sentient beings, the journey begins here and now with my own personal practice. When I reach the level of arhat, I am confident that I will know where to go from there. Concerning myself with that now is nothing more than a distraction from my current practice.

A simple example of wu wei vs the alternative - Think of a task you are obligated to to perform that you dislike or feel is unnecessary - work, school, housework... Something that is annoying and drudgery. No matter how physically or intellectually easy it is, it feels difficult and drains us of energy. Now think of doing something extremely physically and/or mentally challenging that you love, something you feel is extremely beneficial, maybe something that helps someone you really care for - it is effortless. You feel energized, even if exhausted. This is one example of effortless action vs effortful action. I've played guitar for many years, always music written by others - never wrote anything myself but always wanted to. My thoughts always got in the way - I'm not good enough, don't understand theory enough, no one will like it, it will never be good enough, and so forth. I recently participated in a workshop designed to tap into our creative potential. The idea is that when we connect with ourselves at a level deeper than the narrator, the rational process, the creator of the reasons why we can't do things - fear, hope, expectation - it just happens, it's already always there, waiting. The meditations connected us to that source and simply called attention to the fears, the expectations, and whatever other blockages were there. And it worked! In 3 weeks I wrote 5 pieces of music based on meditation on the 5 elements. And when I opened and felt the flow begin, they were effortless, I couldn't stop working on them and felt completely energized and enthusiastic. And they're not half bad, if you'll excuse a bit of conceit. Our connection to our nature, unsoiled by conditioning, ignorance, desire, aversion, and so forth, permits spontaneity. And when that connection is genuine and strong, we are without fear, without expectation, and our creative potential is enormous. Suddenly problems that have stymied us are solved. Great beauty is there, generosity, strength - it is a reservoir, a treasure, a refuge. I think this is what the sages connect with when they refer to wu wei - spontaneous, effortless manifestation of the source, our fundamental nature, that is uncorrupted and pure. It is more than simply not trying to do, it is allowing the obstructions created by thought and conditioning to settle so that our latent potential, which is pure, perfect, and limitless, can shine through.

For me, fear is nothing more than a symptom, a physiologic response, not a fundamental cause of suffering. In my view and experience the primary root of suffering is ignorance of our true nature. And stable realization and manifestation of that nature is the end of fear and the end of suffering.

Do you never judge anything? You're judging this thread in these very posts...

I think concerning ourselves with siddhis and special powers is a sign that our grasping mind is very active.

From the perspective of the absolute, that is correct. Who of us has attained the three bodies in this lifetime? For those of us living in samsara (i.e. all of us) the mind is the judge.