doc benway

Meditation? I've got enough shit on my mind to worry about meditation... - my father

Not at all a morbid question. Death is every bit as natural and necessary as life. If one ever has contact with the unborn and undying essence, the fear of death is gone in a flash. What's morbid is that so many of us fear and resist death and yet we waste our entire life worrying about the future and regretting the past. Nothing lasts, nothing is what we expect, and everything changes. When we embrace and accept the end of everything we know and are, it allows us to truly live. It's a wonderful practice - very liberating.

Even better for the opponent to think they are driving until they realize that you are... too late.

Excellent - I usually do

Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that usually. In my experience, less than 10% of people want to put much of anything into it. Most show up and try a bit, go home and forget about it. They prefer to be guided or just feel good for the 45 minutes they are there... not really looking for personal transformation, just some relief. A small percentage are highly motivated and really apply themselves. The tricky thing is - which group to teach to? In a group setting, it can be challenging to to address everyone's needs but not impossible. You need to be able to teach on multiple levels to people of different aptitudes.

And? Do you mean to imply that we shouldn't try to do something because it's difficult? With proper guidance, I also find that people are able to connect to what is without needing to interject too much in the way of imagination and conceptualization. Edit - in fact, I think that is the whole purpose of these practices - to let go of the concepts and baggage and simply connect to, return to the source. My belief is that these practices are much more effective without the thinking mind getting in the way.

I was taught in a very direct way - just stand, just do the form, just breath... the rest will come. It works well for the small percentage of students who are dedicated enough to stick with it and put in the time and blood, sweat, and tears. I generally follow a somewhat similar approach. I try to start with the practice of simple awareness and build on that. I try not to give students preconceptions or expectations but I do offer some guidance. I don't want them to experience what I experience, but what they experience - we're all unique. Not all students need the same thing and I try to read them and give them what helps the most, always being careful not to lead them to get too far into their head, their ideas, labels, and concepts - even the widely accepted ones. For me, even the concept of Qi can be a big distraction and very misleading, especially to those who like to read a lot and are prone to get into their concepts. On the other hand, there are some practices which are completely rooted in imagination and those can be very effective as well and have a role.

I would say that good is rooted in the unchangeable source, the fundamental nature. Evil is rooted in ignorance of that nature.

Dear Cloud Hands - I really appreciate you sharing that. I think it's really helpful for instructors to be open to feedback and for students to be open enough to share what they (think they) need. A good instructor will understand and give the student what is needed whether the student recognizes it at the time or not. On the other hand, the instructor isn't perfect and needs to be able to adapt when called for. In this case, all of your insights resonate with me deeply, both as a teacher and student. Fortunately for me, your words describe my own teacher quite well - especially the first part. Good luck in your practice - if you stick with those ideals and have the interest, you will make a good teacher yourself.

The docs I know probably spend at least a few hours a week reading and studying to try and stay current - probably more. That's in addition to reading about issues as unusual things come up in the clinic. On average they take at least one challenging self-assessment exam per year and attend one or two professional conferences which are usually quite good. I can't quote any articles on that - just observation. Yes - I think that is accurate. I also think that the majority are trying hard to be good doctors as they understand the job while at the same time trying hard to live up to their, and their family's (progressively more unrealistic) expectations of what sort of living and lifestyle they "should" have. It's a relatively small minority who are "bad" - by that I mean malicious, opportunistic, and so forth, and of course there are good and bad qualities in all of us to varying degree. The younger generations seem to be more idealistic and altruistic and have expectations more in line with current reality. The other issue is whether even the good doctors are practicing "bad" medicine. I personally believe that the "pharmaceuticalization" of health care is a big failure and ill-advised. In part it is in response to our refusal to embrace and accept the most natural event we will ever experience in our lives - our death. In part it is due to our unrealistic expectations regarding illness and injury recovery and morbidity. In part it is related to the toxification of our lives and docs taking the easy path of writing a prescription because they don't have the time or expertise to try and effect change at a more fundamental level (and of course, most people aren't interested in that kind of change). And of course, it all culminates in a predatory response to these fears in our capitalistic and consumer driven culture. Me too - I have a few friends who have lived through that same experience in the former USSR republics as well as elsewhere. It takes awareness and enormous energy and commitment to overcome the professional emotional and psychological hazards of the job as it is here, and by this I refer to how it can change and corrupt a person. But it can be done.

Actually, most specialty societies have requirements for quite a bit of continuing medical education including periodic written exams to maintain certification. Most docs keep up with the one or two major journals in their specialty. Some are extremely well read, in multiple languages, others not so much. And it's very important to read the studies critically and in context. Data is easily manipulated, easily misunderstood, and rarely captures the big picture. As has been mentioned in this thread, humans are a holistic organism and our attempts to chop that up in to digestible pieces necessarily leads to inaccuracies. One negative aspect of research is that insurance companies and governments are taking outcomes data and basically forcing docs into certain practice patterns. While outcomes data predict averages, people are not averages, they are unique individuals and need to be treated as such. This is where the art of medicine comes in.

Can you share this reference? I'd love to see it. The most recent I read was that docs in a hospital in Germany worked ~ 11 hours per day, spent nearly 3 hours documenting per day, and spent about an hour and a half communicating with patients and family. The average was 4 minutes per patient and 17 seconds per family member. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1186%2F1472-6963-10-94#page-1 Silence? Not in the medical community. Maybe in the public sector - see my response below. Iatrogenic and nosocomial morbidity and mortality is well known, constantly monitored and addressed, and preyed upon by opportunistic malpractice attorneys and profiteers. One problem is that fear of errors has led to attempts at bureaucratizing and legislating the problems away and this has cause an enormously burdensome medical record system and "safeguard" measures that leave doctors, nurses, and other health care staff very little time to actually take care of patients. The system is so complex to navigate and inconsistent, it has been demonstrated that it actually leads to MORE errors. Many of the measures put in place are ridiculous and ill-conceived as many are dreamed up by bean counters and non-clinical folks who don't understand what is really needed. Furthermore, at every step someone is trying to profit on the new software or fancy needle caps or whatever. In addition, these "safeguard" generally assume that health care professionals are idiots. While this may be true in some cases, it doesn't make sense to have rigorous requirements for people to receive medical training, spend a decade and hundreds of thousands of dollars to train them, and then not let them think for themselves. The system is an ineffective, exploited juggernaut and there are many good people (and many bad as well) trying to work within its constraints. Ebola is a distraction. As is ISIS and nearly everything else we see in the media. If we can be kept focused on things like this, we won't pay attention to things like iatrogenic morbidity and the fact that soon nearly 30% of ALL Americans will have diabetes and that the federal and regional governments are in complete collusion with industry at all levels to profit from our forced sugar addiction. That's only one issue but it will (and has) injure and kill many more people than things like Ebola and ISIS. The other piece in the puzzle is personal responsibility. The average American is overweight, has very poor dietary intake, rarely drinks pure water, many smoke tobacco and use drugs recreationally, drink too much alcohol, spends countless hours frying the brain and energetic body with TV and electronic media, doesn't sleep well, doesn't exercise enough, lives in nearly constant stress, anger, and desire, etc... etc... They live in an increasingly toxic environment but won't stop driving everywhere in favor of walking, bicycle, or public transportation. Rather than change their lifestyle, they find it much more appealing to go to a doctor and get a pill or a surgery rather than face the real problems. They don't want to be told to eat right, sleep well, give up the cell phone and car, exercise more, pray, breath, and stop living a life of overworking, stress, and consumerism. Folks are continually poisoning themselves physically, emotionally, spiritually, energetically, and then we act surprised [edit - and blame the health care system] when they don't have good outcomes with Western medicine. And everyone in the system is equally oblivious. Like Taomeow said, it's a mountain of shit.

Two valuable points here - use this as impetus to study deeper and notice that you're frustration is a sign of your attachment to your identity and beliefs regarding Neidan. Not saying it's a bad thing but for a cultivator it is helpful to be aware of our beliefs and how we define ourselves. No need to feel guilty, no one has yet made a scientifically convincing case. I think it's important to not dilute or compromise the scientific method. The method is extremely effective but only when applied in a pure fashion. As mentioned above, the big money players compromise it whenever possible to make $$. If we compromise it to try and give credibility to our esoteric practices, the method is rendered useless and we have done nothing to enhance our practices. All we have done is compromise our ethics and honesty to gain credibility - it's not worth it. It's equally important for those of us who practice ancient traditions that have "proven" effective through our personal experiences to trust and honor those experiences and not dilute those through a loss of confidence, loss of trust, or uninformed modification of something we don't fully understand or have mastery over. Just because the Qi paradigm has not yet been borne out by that method, does not mean that either should be abandoned or compromised. Certainly there is the political and economic influence in science (and in the Qi world - take one look at many of the jokers, opportunists, control freaks, and snake oil salesmen and women involved in the big Qigong and Chinese martial arts communities and organizations). Anywhere you find humans, you will find opportunism and politics. It's much more pervasive in the scientific community for exactly the reasons already mentioned - more opportunity for economic and political profit in that arena. If the scientific community and public at large does not yet accept our esoteric practices, it is not helpful to punish ourselves with frustration and anger. Much better to continue to develop our skills and, if we have the inclination, perhaps work on applying the scientific method to observe and study those practices. I think it is critical, however, to apply the method fully, honestly, and uncompromisingly and accept what results we see (or not). I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the religious side. Religious experience is no more subjective than energetic experience. Don't try to elevate the energetic by criticizing the religious. The Bönpos and Buddhists have, arguably, applied "scientifically minded" approaches to the realm of the emotion, psychology, spirituality, and religious. Yes - subjective experience should be either respected and trusted or not. I think it is arbitrary and gratuitous to pick and choose because of our personal belief systems. No, we shouldn't discount anything - we should give it the attention we choose. Let the skeptics be skeptics. The only thing necessary to convince them are a few, well-designed and convincing studies that adhere to the methods of science without compromise. Skeptics will always be out there. You can't convince some folks that there's value in the esoteric practices. You can't convince others that there's value in the present scientific community. We all live wrapped up in our stories unless we're willing to look at things with an open heart and mind. Peace

Thank you both!

Perhaps it's simply semantic, but I have a bit of a different opinion and experience regarding the value of releasing. At some point, perhaps, one has reached a point where it is no longer necessary. For the majority of people, there tends to be some degree of effort present in their attempts at meditation, relaxation, qigong, and so forth. For the most part, depending on the method, that effort is an obstacle. I think it is extremely valuable to be aware of that effort. When one is aware of the effort, it already changes, but it may be helpful to gently remind oneself to let go of effort. I think this process can be very helpful.

Perhaps that is the difference between knowing and believing. If you really know, beyond question, then how could you not live it? Belief, on the other hand, is much less solid. I've met a few - pretty inspiring. No question, it takes more than awareness for it to really manifest in your life. It takes enormous dedication and continuous practice. I think that is an excellent objective.

I'm not living a simple life, not even close. Lots of responsibilities, people who depend on me, busy job, etc... Nevertheless, it is possible to simplify my life without changing any of that - it's all a matter of perspective and attitude. Stress has little to do with how complicated life is, stress is related to our resistance to life. Think about being involved in an extraordinarily complex and demanding task that you absolutely love doing and are completely engaged with - there is no stress, time flies, and it's so simple, it basically does it itself. Now think of being forced to do something very simply and repetitive that you absolutely despise, something that seems pointless and a complete waste of time. A minute seems like an hour and the stress is enormous. What most people think of as security is an illusion, it simply doesn't exist. Any of us could drop dead, stroke out, get hit by a bus... at any time. The richest folks are often the most frightened of loss. On the other hand, there are many people who don't know where their next meal is coming from and they're completely happy and simply aren't worried about it. When people have what they think they need to feel secure, something else invariably becomes a problem. That's because you already, always have everything you need to be completely happy and secure and nothing outside of yourself can substitute for that. Security and stability do not come from outside - only from inside. The only real security is finding a way to be OK with anything and everything that could possibly happen. It seems impossible but it's not.

So important to separate your concept with direct experience through non-conceptual awareness. That is the foundation, IMO. One thing that could be a bit useful is that for many people the awareness or feeling of Qi is somewhat similar to the feeling of sexual excitation, only much more subtle. I don't think it is coincidental that there is a similarity in this feeling and that there is a relationship between Qi and Jing (the generate force).

That is the problem with all 'me's - it is the nature of the me to grasp and judge. And that is useful from a teleological perspective, less so for the spiritual path.

Yes and no - the arms are by the sides and a bit toward the front with the arms slightly internally rotated from the shoulders. Not resting on the side exactly but yes, what people generally refer to as a wuji posture. It takes a long time (months) but I have found simple zhan zhuang to work wonders for neck and shoulder tightness. Dissolving practices ala Bruce Frantzis can be useful too. Edit - What I think may be even more important than any sort of exercise or practice to open the shoulders is to practice mindfulness regarding relaxation and proper posture in your daily life, especially if you are a keyboard jockey for work or play...

And interestingly, the two are the same. When I look deeply into what it means to be secure and stable, I find that security and stability are an illusion. The freedom to accept that fact is the most stable security.

Basic zhan zhuang is wonderful for opening the shoulders. After reaching the point where you can comfortably stand for an extended period of time in the basic posture, more challenging postures for the shoulders are hugging the tree and san ti shi.

Social skills can also be used to help others without any need for manipulation or exploitation. Arguably, the ability to manipulate and exploit others is a negative thing, not a social skill but rather abusive. When I have been manipulated, I generally feel violated and upset. Why turn that around and attempt to do that to others?

This is a great illustration of how much perspective impacts our personal reality. For me, success is liberation... freedom from the opinions and expectations of others. The connection between success and the approval of others is abject failure. It creates a life in which your view of your value is dependent on the opinion of other people. It is enslaving and very limiting - the opposite of liberation. And it's not unusual, it is in fact the norm. It is something we are conditioned to by everyone around us from birth until death. Not saying I'm correct or incorrect, just contributing a very different perspective that has worked for me.

I think yours was an excellent post and saying what I did but much more succinctly - I think I understood it but I didn't quite get the significance of the Newton part... I agree with you. I can sound a bit opinionated at times, especially when I'm feeling passionate about something, but I'm actually pretty flexible.