doc benway

Sorry, they are not. Devotion is taking refuge. Bodhicitta is awakening the mind/heart. Different and distinct practices - not interchangeable.

Complex subject: there is the don't give up, keep trying aspect that most people respect and encourage; and there is the give up completely, allow things to be as they are for that is how it is and you are only punishing yourself if you don't accept it side of things that is very powerful and effective in alleviating our suffering. Somewhere there is a balance. It is clearly important for us to do things in our lives that help us and those around us to survive and prosper and enjoy our lives. At the same time there is a place for not struggling against the things that we want to be different when we are unable to change them; and there is a place for accepting when something we desire is lacking and we are unable to get it. In every moment, we can practice allowing things to be exactly as they are and find it within ourselves to be open enough to be OK with that. At the same time, we can certainly take actions that we feel are appropriate to move forward so that we can live our lives as we see fit.

According to every Tibetan master I've read, met, or heard of, the other key is devotion to the guru.

And in that genuine recognition of our immortality we see the pain of others as our pain and would do nothing intentionally to cause anyone anguish. The possessing is no longer important, the love and compassion is. That genuine experience is a game changer.

In general, I agree with Chang regarding most things related to Daoist experiential practices. With respect to zhan zhuang, however, if you cannot or will not get personal instruction I think this book is quite good - http://www.amazon.com/The-Way-Energy-Mastering-Internal/dp/0671736450

Funny how one or two beginners with a certain mindset can take up all of your time and attention and suck the life right out of you if you allow it. And they tend to be the folks that don't stick around very long. Your change in approach is very wise and I think that's a part of our own growth as teachers. It's challenging to see to it that everyone feels that they're getting what they need. And it's OK when we can't please everyone. I share your enthusiasm for the outdoors and try to cultivate an attitude in myself and others that the "obstacles" of practicing outdoors are not at all obstacles but rather enhancements and opportunities for growth. Much of my focus is on opening and allowing things to be as they are and simply notice how we judge - good and bad, and how that is exactly what is getting in our way. The little challenges help me work on that.

I use a very gentle set of warm ups that include breathing, rocking motions, stretches, turning, side to side movements, neck rotation, bouncing, and sound. It covers the body physically and energetically and coordinates everything with the breathing. For the more physical practices (martial arts and shiba luohan), I use a set of martial arts warm ups. I teach taijiquan, some basic bagua and xingyi, and a few qigong forms including a variation of the baduajin, shiba luohan gong, taiji jian shen fa, swimming dragon, and occasionally the taiji ruler if someone wants to learn that. For closing, standing meditation with qi chen dan tian, and sometimes other neigong. After a more physical session, I use a simple qigong set called the 4 basic breathings, then standing.

My personal opinion - absolutely yes. My goal is to have my students reach the point where they are self sufficient and can self correct. Then they have something that is theirs and can be useful for the rest of their life. I don't like it as much when students simply follow along like in many yoga programs (and, unfortunately, some qigong programs). That's a good approach for economics (having dependent students) but not the way I think it should be approached. My preference - warm ups, standing meditation, instruction, practice time, standing meditation, close. I don't do any more advanced or seated meditation in classes in general. In general, 45 - 60 minutes is a good amount of time for me. 90 minutes is too much unless you are doing a lot of talking, which I avoid.

If you think that you have free will, try not thinking for an hour.

For most Westerners, contemplation has the connotation of thinking about something whereas meditation does not (in part because most Westerners don't have much experience with either). For Easterners, contemplation is more suggestive of a non-thought (or not identifying with thought) state, and meditation generally refers to practices involving visualizations, mantra, and so on. So, yes, I agree with you. I chose the word I did for our mostly Western group of participants. Your choice is more accurate and is probably the convention we should follow here. If you look at the entoptic phenomenon closely, the retinal capillaries are also visible but are much more subtle, sometimes implied rather than explicit. I think that is what Dao's photo captures. Floaters generally don't have that "thig le'i" appearance, just strands. Both entoptic phenomena and floaters depend on the eye, hence neither are related to visions.

When that distinction is no longer observed, there is meditation. A Om Hung

stickling at sundown... has a pernicious effect on my dream yoga

I usually start my morning yoga and meditation before sunrise and the sun comes up as I'm sitting - for me it's the best time to sit. I meditate with my eyes open so the gradual dawning of light is wonderful. Although I go through phases of feeling a bit sleepy or sluggish in the morning, it's generally my clearest time of day. Perfect for meditation. I used to do Taijiquan at sunrise but meditation has become much more important for me in the past few years.

Generally speaking, a vision is something that is "seen" without the engagement of the eye. This is why visions are generated using practices that disengage or trick the eye such as dark retreat, sky gazing, and sun gazing. Having visions in the course of normal daily activity can occur randomly, even to non-practitioners, but in practitioners that would indicate someone with a very refined and stable ability to integrate the nature of mind with activity.

I would say the overwhelming majority of participants in this thread want it to say, so that's it then. So while we waste our time meditating, the OP will be hard at work designing better guns. Thanks everyone. Next?

I'd like to comment on how civil this conversation has been despite the potentially contentious subject matter and commentary. Bravo

.... or, in the case of spirituality, less

My points - you don't understand spirituality. From my perspective, you are the one being conned and don't realize that you are conning yourself. But I'm OK with that because it is how it is and clearly I can't change it. I predict that it will change at some point in the future - you'll have to see if my prediction is accurate, haha

Scientific fundamentalism... no less religious, just a different God.

I disagree, and that's OK with me.

Or the experience itself.

Very valuable point, soaring crane. The purpose of the sky gazing exercise is to recognize that when we look outside we are really seeing ourselves. This neat little anatomic observation is a great example of exactly that.

Another view is that we are component parts of a much bigger and beautiful whole interacting with the other parts in a manner of absolute purity and perfection. It's all a matter of perspective.

May be helpful to look at how you are feeling and recognize it is in you, it is not out there in the world. The world is fine as it is. It is people who struggle with it based on their expectations. Certainly there is pain, death, and all of that but we add so much to it through our thoughts, emotions, desires, aversions, and expectations. Depression comes and goes, joy comes and goes. Best to recognize both for what they are, temporary emotional and psychological states which are a consequence of the conditions of our lives and personalities. Good to acknowledge and honor those feelings, let them run their course and recognize that they are not who you are, just passing experiences. You are infinitely more than that - you are perfect, it's just hard to see it.

I agree, that was my approach as well. In fact, no reason to ever focus on the qigong or the spiritual. Not everyone has a need or aptitude for it. My point is that some do, some don't - good to acknowledge that and support each other on our unique paths. And even a little constructive caution towards each other is a beautiful thing, especially when it comes from caring and experience.