doc benway

What are you referring to? The Dream Yoga workshop?

You are definitely on to something there. And it's not just that a lot is given but what is given is of immense value, and often underestimated by the student because it's not sexy enough... Just keep walking that circle - if you master the circle, not much else is necessary. If you don't master the circle, not much else can help!

Pretty good theory - I think there's a very high likelihood that this would work in the martial arts as well as meditative arts. The other ingredient is the quality, devotion, and commitment of the student.... - you could probably do it!

PS - treckchö doesn't lead to thödgal, it just sets the stage. Thödgal is developed through very specific practices but stability in treckchö must come first. Same with jalü - it does not follow from thödgal (many practice thödgal and few are thought to achieve jalü), but thödgal must come first then there is an opportunity to work toward jalü.

Sorta kinda... In Bagua the circle waking is the basic foundation physically and energetically. In Dzogchen, the preliminaries help establish the view and the necessary devotion.

Yes

And the Dzogchen masters practice these preliminaries until the day they die with complete devotion and commitment - there is a good reason for that.

It now occurs to me that such discussions can be useful IF we are able to truly listen with an open mind and an open heart, with strong intention of personal change.

Very true - thought seems to be a consequence of language. I wonder to what degree non-verbal sentient beings think and what that thought feels like. Even when I am able to rest in "whatever you want to call it" thoughts still come and go. The method I practice currently looks at those thoughts as inseparable from the ground "substance" hence whether they are there or not makes no difference and, when skilled, does not affect one's ability to continue to rest.

"Is talking about spirituality and practices useful?" I've found it very useful when talking to folks who are on the same path and comparing practice related experiences and views. I have one close friend in particular with whom I've had countless discussions. They've definitely helped me to refine my view both through challenges and reinforcement. Some members here have helped me either by helping me to see weaknesses in my view or behavior or by pointing out something I hadn't seen or thought of. I've also found it useful when talking to a teacher or someone more experienced or knowledgeable than I am. I'd even like to think that I've occasionally said or posted something that other folks have found useful. Unfortunately however, so often group discussions (especially anonymous ones) deteriorate into each of us displaying our normal ego driven behavior trying to make ourselves feel good or others feel bad, etc... etc... So for me, the value is usually in one on one discussions with very select individuals.

Thinking is natural and necessary but also quite maladapted and the source of enormous mental anguish and impairment... Credible methods do not intend to end thinking but rather return it to its natural place where it is helpful, valuable, creative, and less of a source of suffering. Those who attempt to end thought are misguided, IMO.

Dream yoga is intense! I've been working on it for about 6 months. It takes a lot of dedication but it works...

Here are several resources: http://www.ligmincha.org/en/programs/internet-teachings-podcast.html This page links to an enormous wealth of information on a variety of subjects, most dealing with Trekchö, taught with relatively little mumbo-jumbo, completely free, and as effective as you are willing to commit to time and sincerity in your practice. Oh, and they are taught in a way that is immediately personal and accessible to Westerners. The core of the practices is focusing on the inner refuge - this is Trekchö, finding that within us which is unborn, unceasing, indestructible, not subject to karma, etc... It is there and can be accessed and can be an enormous source of stability, inspiration, creativity, and liberation. It may not be what you expect and have been led to believe. Don't let your expectations be a distraction. There is a series of videos called "The Gift of Inner Refuge" about halfway down the page that is a good place to start but you could start anywhere. The 2 most recent video clips are from a 3 week retreat which focused on a core text from the Bön Dzogchen teachings called the 21 Nails. This teachings gives 21 different pith instructions that approach the Nature of Mind from different perspectives. While these 2 video clips are relatively short excerpts and guided practices, they give a bit of the flavor of the teaching style. In addition, there are many paid programs that get more in depth and direct, personal instruction is available if you want personal transmission. He is an amazing teacher and the methods are the real deal. Another good resource that gives basic introduction to the Inner Refuge practice is his book Awakening the Luminous Mind - it is completely secular.

CNN or anyone else who is legitimate does not "become" anything, including one's guru. He is as he is. We take people on as our guru if we choose to. That is up to us - the lama is who they are, not what we project. Although most of us get very wrapped up in our projections on authority figures. That's part of the value of the authoritarian model - the lama facilitates our seeing through these projections.

Thanks for that suggestion Ralis, I just bought it.

What isn't done for money in the West? There is no other way to support a monastery. This is the way things are done here. That is exactly how the lamas that I've met feel. Deserves? Lots of things happen in life that people neither want nor deserve - premature death, disfigurement, rape, bankruptcy... And lots of undeserving people get way more than they deserve - unethical bankers and insurance executives, thieves, politicians... You are welcome to hold on to your desires and attachments to what should and shouldn't be but they are just judgements and they won't get you far. The good news is that the opportunity is there, the teachings have been made public - it is a matter of an individual's karma as to whether or not they will get the teachings and put them into action in their lives. More judgement based on your personal preferences, experiences, objections, etc... The trappings of the religion are anathema to some and supportive to others. They are not going away overnight whether you want them to or not, why struggle? If they are not to your liking, leave it be. With an iPad and broadband connection you have access to the teachings totally stripped down of all the trappings right now. Take them as they are and enjoy. And there are programs that offer the teachings completely devoid of the religious trappings - everything you need. You just need to look for it. But then the criticism will be - they are watered down! LOL

Didn't quite destroy it but certainly tried!

Not true with all lamas - there are those who are doing exactly what you are asking for, and quite effectively. One problem is that when the methods are presented in this way, many folks criticize and dismiss them as being "watered down." If you look at the history of Buddhism in Tibet, it's not as simple as you portray it. The indigenous religion, Bön, was looked at as archaic, Bönpos were shunned, temples and teachings were destroyed... I don't think it was any individual that blended Buddhism and the indigenous culture, I suspect it was at the people who did it over a long period of time and in the face of much adversity.

I'm going to visit in a few weeks. And he's with me in my heart anytime I need him.

Congratulations - next step is to compete! That will tell you a lot more than the student...

For me, it's been a blessing to find a close friend I can talk to about absolutely anything, including the unspeakable... Sadly, he move a few hours away and I rarely get to see or talk to him anymore.

Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche does webcast transmissions a few times a year so that people can be empowered to practice guru yoga. I've never done this or practiced with him but he has a lot of credibility. http://tsegyalgar.org/theteachings/worldwidetransmissions/http://tsegyalgar.org/theteachings/worldwidetransmissions/ The idea simply is that the transmission involves the student and the master resting in the same space of consciousness simultaneously. Whether you are sitting in front of a laptop screen halfway around the world, sitting 2 rows back from the dais or sitting 50 yards away, really doesn't matter all that much. What counts is how much you apply yourself to the practice once you've gotten the transmission. As deci belle recently posted, in these practices the real teacher is the natural state itself. The transmission or empowerment is mostly a way of making sure that you understand as accurately as possible how to access that as well as how to show it proper respect. Then the real teacher and student does the work. That said, for me it's alway worth doing whatever it takes to get personal instruction whenever possible, especially for something as important as a lifelong practice that can lead to liberation.

How to do it Get good at it

Nice demonstration of real fajin. Very easy to learn the basic method, very tough to develop a high level of skill and effectiveness.

For these methods to work, one must deeply connect to the view, the methods, and the lineage. The commitment and devotion necessary are formidable. While it may seen silly to some, stealing copy written material from lineage masters probably creates a negative karmic connection to the lineage and teachings and will not be conducive to success. There is more to this than simply information. I'd urge anyone who is serious about this stuff to actually go through proper channels - buy books and videos, seek out personal instruction from a lineage master, etc... Help to support the lineage and masters that have come before us. These masters and authors, as a rule of thumb, are not rich. We are blessed that they are freely sharing this material which was highly secret just a few years ago. I think it's a little presumptuous to expect it to be free as well. Yes, the masters want us to benefit from the teachings. They want this more sincerely and deeply than you can imagine. That said, they have put decades of their time and effort into understanding and perfecting these teachings What little money they earn, they typically donate to causes that support Tibetan refugees and so on. They and their editors, publishers, distributors, and translators have put many hours of their time into creating an opportunity for us to have these publications. Please don't steal them and distribute them illegally. It's very important to show respect for the teachings. Otherwise you are wasting your time. But that's certainly your privilege.