doc benway

Rangtong - 'self empty' Shentong - 'other empty' The debates and definitions of these concepts can be very confusing but I do think its worth some time and effort for those interested in the Buddhist path. I also think it is very valuable to spend time in skillful practice. Direct experience of the inseparability of space and clarity is the perfect teacher and points out the inherent weakness in all conceptual models. Lots of good resources on the topic. From "Shentong and Rangtong, Two Views of Emptiness," by Khenchen Thrangu Rinpoche: "What we should understand is the Buddha's view. We should not impose our notions created from our own concepts upon Buddhadharma. Therefore, we need to understand the traditions of the Rangtong and Shentong. If we don't understand the Rangtong tradition, we will have attachment to things as if they had a true existence. Therefore we need to examine and understand the Svatrantika and Prasangika traditions of the Rangtong. Having understood the absence of reality, we go on to the ultimate aspect in which there isn't just plain emptiness but there is Buddha nature, clarity, and ultimate wisdom, as explained in the Shentong tradition. The Shentong tradition, therefore, clarifies the Rangtong teachings, and the Rangtong teachings clarifies the Shentong teachings. Thus both assist each other. We can see that there is no contradiction between them, but that they mutually assist each other." Thrangu Rinpoche. The Bön seem to take a similar approach, while acknowledging the empty aspect of inherent existence, we are constantly reminded of the inherent clarity that is inseparable from emptiness.

If you've found something, that's not it.

Here is a prayer to the creator -

And yet, when you look for the projector, there is nothing to find… And yet they are not 'other.' They are of one taste.

As silent thunder implies, the right path chooses you. It's good to explore what captures your attention. Take what makes sense for you, discard the rest. Like Old Chi says, the most important thing is to practice, and not just on the cushion or in the temple, but in your every thought and action. Enjoy the process because there is no real goal.

Hey Otis!!! Very nice to see you post here! Thanks for sharing this. Warm regards, Steve

I read a passage today describing "the mistake of Shamatha" referring to practicing Shamatha and resting in a dull state, absent the spark of active presence (my paraphrase)… I don't know if that's what you could be referring to. This was a Bön source, which is what my earlier comments relate to as well, not Zen - though there are significant similarities.

Hi BKA, I would ask - What is the role of love and compassion in the traditional Daoist training you have encountered and are there any specific practices for developing these qualities that you have been trained in? Thanks for setting this up. Wish I knew who we were talking about but that's OK, I'm sure it will fun.

Sorry... one step at a time... Slow deep breaths...

I'm somewhat of an admirer of Tommy but would rephrase this as - 3 things are necessary for the salvation of man: to know that he ought not believe, to know that he ought not desire, and to know that there is nothing to be done. -steve

I don't disagree with you there, all good points. And your original point is quite valid - the desire is grasping. I still feel that there is the opportunity to develop our ability to rest in the Nature of Mind to the point where the awareness and experience of sexual drive and impulse can occur without the grasping aspect. I'm certainly not there. And maybe it is not possible at all... I do know it is something that is the object of practice.

I don't see sexual desire as grasping, necessarily, depending on how we are using the word desire. Sexuality is a natural condition of human existence. One can have the experience of the sexual drive without attachment, without grasping. This is, in fact, a well established practice as one tries to integrate residing in the Nature of Mind with a variety of virtuous, neutral, and non-virtuous activity.

A friend recently shared this beautiful prayer with me, I hope you enjoy it as well: may you be graced with the visual blessings of these extraordinary gurus may your heart open further and embrace all that is - AS IT IS may this be your lunar eclipse prayer may this aspiration prayer pour its nectar into the crown of your being may you discover and reside in the nature of your own mind may you trust your gifts from self-arising awareness may it bring you tears ============================================== this a famous Dzogchen aspiration prayer from the Gongpa Zangthal. It is to be recited especially during a solar or lunar eclipse, an earthquake or at the solstices. This aspiration prayer comes from the Dzogchen tantra called the Tantra of the Great Perfection which Shows the Penetrating Wisdom of Samantabhadra. In Tibetan, the short title of this tantra is Gongpa Zangthal Gyi Gyü, which means “The Tantra of Penetrating Wisdom” or “The Tantra of Transcendent Intention.”

I had some thoughts about grasping after my morning practice. The word grasping implies to me an intentional reaching and taking hold of something. What occurs in my mind is infinitely more insidious and subtle, occurring well before I'm aware of any conscious intention. At times I am able to see the process unfold. At other (most) times, I have already grabbed hold well before knowing kicks in. So to me grasping is more like a stickiness, like cobwebs, they are all over your face before you ever see them coming, unavoidable, and then there is the process of letting them ago or clearing them away, which sometimes is nearly effortless, and sometimes quite difficult - again the cobweb image comes to mind.

Clairvoyance - from the French clair (clear) and voir (to see) = to see clearly. Def. from Merriam-Webster : 1. the power or faculty of discerning objects not present to the senses 2. ability to perceive matters beyond the range of ordinary perception In terms of the etymology of the word and the aspect of its precise definition, I would say that is quite an apt description of awakening to one's true Nature. Not so much in terms of the popular use of the word to refer to connote more mundane psychic powers… Although some such "powers" are a natural consequence of awakening.

Where should I send my receipts?

I don't think there is any wall there when it comes to interviews... no one, to my knowledge, has ever blocked or even discouraged interviews. If that is inaccurate, I stand corrected. I also freely admit that I did not previously have the inclination or time to get involved in arranging or conducting any. I suspect Trunk and the other mods back then felt the same. That could change for me in the future, one never knows. That is up to the members to propose, carry out, and I've never seen any resistance to having them published or pinned... I will now disengage as well. Best to you also Apech.

From a relative view, there is diversity and little evidence of unity. From an absolute perspective, there is always, only beginningless and ceaseless unity, filled with the wonder and beauty of spontaneously arising diversity. In my limited experience, true teachers are maintaining and propagating their systems in an effort to offer one possible avenue to assist people on their paths because that particular path worked for them (the teacher). They are aware of, and make clear, the fact that there are as many valid paths as there are pilgrims and that no one path is best. They are also in a position where they can adapt their path to the needs of others. Different strokes for different folks. The saying "unity in diversity" is true and probably not terribly useful in assisting people to recognize it's truth. When one sees truth, it is clear and obvious, and from there this type of saying arises. Until then, saying things like this can be an annoyance and even a hindrance to those who don't yet see it... Edited for multiple grammatical and spelling blunders...

Thanks for your reply. In terms of pinning interviews which were the product of a lot of effort and generous contribution, I never objected to them being pinned at all. Never would and never will. Everything valuable should be made easily accessible. I don't think Trunk ever objected to that and I don't recall anyone suggesting pinning the interviews. What I personally recall objecting to was giving "teachers" administrative level control over searchable sub-forums. A PPF can serve exactly the purpose you (and certain teachers) are/were after, it just doesn't allow the teacher to improve their web presence through TTB's. I still think that is a Pandora's box, particularly with respect to administration of the board. That said, I don't really have a strong feeling one way or the other as a member what direction TTB's goes, although I do think the level playing field/cafeteria model is what this board does best. To give "teachers" a higher level of administrative control over searchable sub-forums takes the board in a very different direction. I put teachers in quotation marks because the first hurdle will be to determine how teachers will be selected and/or defined and by whom... Anyway, I don't want to draw this out because it seems like TTB's is taking a positive step in the direction you seem to favor so it will be interesting to see how that develops and where the board goes from there. And for any teachers who genuinely want to offer teachings and more info on TTB's for the membership, a PPF is a great way to go, currently available, free, and effective - just not a good way to self- promote. The structure of the PPF forum could even be fine tuned in a way to make them more accessible and more controllable (if necessary). Thanks for listening.

I think this is a wonderful and valuable post. I also question how valid this particular comment is - "I posed the question, "What need be taught?" It is not a rhetorical question. Who cannot answer that question will never be worthy of the potential a teacher can bring out in a worthy student." (underlining is obviously mine) Certainly people change over time. There was a time when I was unable to answer that question and there was a change such that I know the answer. We are not static and someone who cannot answer now and is looking in all the wrong places may at some point understand what they are (not) looking for... Maybe that has something to do with a teacher or teaching, maybe that has something to do with divine blessing, maybe it is all about karma, and maybe it is simply an ineffable process that is at play. I think that the right teacher can help the right student at the right time, maybe even before that student is ready to answer the quoted question. One of my favorite quotations about that point comes from Peter Fenner who addresses the paradoxes inherent in non-duality in many of his writings and recordings - "If we didn't do what we didn't need to do we wouldn't know that we didn't need to do it."

I feel that I should say something about the above comments. I believe that Apech (and I) were both mods when some of these interviews were created. Why didn't YOU pin them, Apech? Why not recommend it since? Why didn't YOU repeat the process with other teachers? Interested and motivated individuals did the previous projects, so if this is important to you, do it. It seems like you're trying to put all of this on Trunk. I'm not sure what motivation is underlying that but I find it a bit unfair. I have some thoughts about teachers and this forum but don't think they'd really add much to the discussion so I'll leave it at that.

Here's a good resource for approaching the lotus - http://zenmontpellier.voila.net/eng/lotus/lotuseng.htmlAnother good resource is the book - Becoming the Lotus.

I think most folks who know me would consider me a mature and responsible adult. If they knew me better, that could change…

Excellent suggestion. I support it.

The cool thing about Buddhism is that whether or not it can be reasonably described as Rational Atheism, a rational atheist could be very comfortable practicing the elements that make sense. And that's all anyone should every do.