doc benway

Check out the history of Trungpa Rinpoche and his crazy wisdom. Spirituality to me is about looking inside (and outside) and figuring out who and what I am and honoring and expressing that to the fullest extent that I am able. And I also think spirituality is different for all of us and changes as we do... Do what you gotta do as long as you are respectful of the right of others to do the same.

I think JLA's choice of discernment is a good one, much better than knowledge, awareness, or presence IMO. I've recently acquired a few of his translations from the Zhangzhung nyengyud - quite good.

Yes, he's a great teacher _/\_ _/\_ _/\_ I would also be a bit careful here. While rigpa can be introduced and accessed through zhiné, it's very important that it be clarified, pointed out, by an experienced guide. I don't think that it is impossible for someone to experience and even recognize rigpa without pointing out instructions, but I do think one is very likely to be mistaken or lack confidence without them. And even a small mistake can really lead one down the wrong path and waste a lot of time in practice. Furthermore, developing enough confidence to be able to return to and abide in the Natural State at will and develop stability depends heavily on the certainty of that knowledge (there, I used the word! ). This is where the importance of guru yoga comes in. Having this degree of certainty requires the trust and devotion that I had never understood or experienced before practicing guru yoga. All the pieces really do fit and work together well, in my limited experience.

But you didn't address my question. Rigpa is completely independent of thought, is knowledge? And yes, I agree fully. The above definition is quite different than reducing Rigpa to simply "knowledge." Furthermore, I would qualify that particular usage of "knowledge" as that which is gained through direct experience or contact, in distinction to an intellectual construction based on information, which is another very common implication of knowledge. Dammit, I just can't stop! Edit to say - and after looking back at one of your earlier quotes you already addressed the usage of knowledge. Nice posts, BTW.

I guess the question I would pose in response is, can you have knowledge without thought? Because rigpa is not a consequence of nor can it be apprehended by thought. For me, knowledge is too tied to concepts like information and thought to be a satisfactory, stand-alone translation. I guess it's a matter of exactly what aspect of the word knowledge we are referring to, how it is being defined and used. That said, I do get Malcom's rationale for preferring knowledge over presence and awareness, I'm just not sure I agree that it's really better, all things considered. Many of the native Tibetan speakers are MUCH less hung up about which English words they are using and the Bönpo often use multiple English words in the same paragraph when referring to rigpa. I think we need to get over it…. especially me.

Awesome title - Emotional Liposuction treatment. And like physical liposuction, if one simply delegates to a technician to suck out the fat the results are quite predictable. The fat will come back, usually sooner than later. Sure, the argument can be made that this sort of thing can help people to get the proper start and make them feel better and so forth but I don't really buy that. If someone wants to clean and balance themselves physically, they need to take an active role. It is equally important at the emotional level. It's very hard work and yet the only way to success is for us to personally to take responsibility and do the work ourselves. Perhaps something like Clyman's magic Qi bullet can kick start people to start doing the work themselves but things like this usually become more of a crutch like fad dieting and liposuction, as opposed to a solution like major lifestyle change. Anthony Demello used to talk about the internal conflict he encountered as both a psychologist and spiritual guide. As a psychologist one wants to simply ease the suffering, here there would be value in "emotional liposuction." As a spiritual guide, one recognizes that we often need to reach a certain degree of pain and suffering before we will take the challenging and often unpleasant steps we need in our lives to make meaningful and sustainable change. All that said, I know next to nothing about Clyman's work and reserve the right to be on an unwarranted tangent but I do think the above points are worth making… Cheers

He also said this - "Adriano Clemente has stopped translating it altogether, which I approve of." Like dharma, for example, some words are probably best working their way into our vocabulary without being attached to a widely accepted English translation. This allows us to ponder the various possible translations and interpretation and dig a bit deeper on our own, thus fleshing out and enhancing our understanding rather than simply accepting, or worse yet, "believing" a particular English translation to be "best." That said, I am more comfortable expanding the definition to "knowledge of one's actual state" as you did above. To expand on your earlier definition - instantaneous knowing of one's actual state - points to rigpa in my mind. I think it's important to distinguish between knowledge as something stored in the dualistic mind from the knowing or even "knowledge of one's actual state" that is occurring in a spontaneous and instantaneous fashion. And we could go on with this ad nauseum. I simply appreciate the fact that over the past few weeks its been possible to have a conversation on Buddhist and Dzogchen topics without rapid deterioration into argument, derision, and insult. Quite refreshing - I appreciate the ability to communicate here in a civil and respectful manner. Cheers

Not only does translating rigpa as knowledge give a sense of a "substantial entity" in possession of such knowledge but it also implies thought, as knowledge is a quantity of thought, not to mention a boundary or a limitation because knowledge is finite. That said, it really doesn't make any difference to me how we define or translate it. What counts is that we learn to recognize it and train to abide in it….

Simply watch from where the thoughts arise and to where they depart. And pay attention where you're walking….

I agree with you there… I'm not as certain about this point… I think it's very difficult to know what someone else has or has not realized. In fact, I think it's difficult to know what one's own experience means, hence, the importance of the guru. That said, I do think one can get clues from how a person speaks, acts, leads their life, and interacts with others. And even from the sparkle in their eyes. And even folks with a deep realization of sunyata and rigpa can fail to integrate it adequately and revert or decay into sin, ignorance, and depravity. To me, one's speech and behavior tells more than their lineage, dress, and title.

My only point of disagreement with your post is the following - I would qualify the above statement by replacing "leads to" with "may lead to." I don't think it is a given. It's very difficult to know what leads to the spontaneous experience of "non-conceptual realization" whether big or small. Maybe it's our karma and the activities in this incarnation have very little to do with it. I am aware of many instances of this in folks who have had no formal training of the "right view" and no meditative experience. On the other hand, I do have confidence that the Buddhist methods (and others) are more likely to take us there than many other activities we may engage in. I also take issue with translating rigpa as knowledge. In the sense that knowledge refers to awareness or familiarity gained through experience, then yes - that aspect is applicable. We've been through this before and I won't debate it much but I think knowing, for example, is a much better English word if we want to point to that which is beyond words and concepts than is the word knowledge. Knowledge in English generally refers to a facts, information, or experience stored within the dualistic mind. Knowledge is finite. Knowing at least implies activity and does not imply boundaries. I do follow Jean Luc's argument and acknowledge his criticism of the use of the word presence and yet I think reducing rigpa to the word knowledge is even more misleading to uninitiated and inexperienced native English speakers than using a word like knowing or awareness. Words are very tricky, much better to practice…. but equally important to practice skillfully and with proper guidance. Edit - Serendipitously, after finishing this post, I opened the book I'm currently reading, Bonpo Dzogchen Teachings, and encountered this quote from Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche by way of John Reynolds - "The capacity of the Natural State to be aware intrinsically is called Rigpa and that Rigpa is not thought (rnam-rtog)." To my Western ear and sensibility, the word knowledge implies the product of thought and so I tend to reject that word as synonymous with Rigpa…

Great clip! Beautiful to see such a precocious young master speaking with such candor and sincerity. This is tregchod - cutting through bullshit.

Yes, view is absolutely critical. In my experience there are two different kinds of view. The first type is that generated through study, reading, analysis, debate, teachings, and so forth. It is important to develop and very unstable. It can change with a thought or a word because it is little more than a concept. The second type is that generated through the spontaneous and direct experience of reality. That is very stable even though it may not be easy, or even possible to express through words. It cannot be changed by any words, concepts, argument, or force. It just is as it is. That is the source of deep devotion and trust. That is the source of refuge. That, I think, is what we're ultimately after in terms of view. The first kind of view can help to generate the second but it is not a given. I think that meditation is also an important tool to try and generate the second type of view, as is our daily behavior. Even those things are no guarantee however... That is why it is so important to pursue all aspects of the path with dedication.

That's because they haven't read the book! Yes, it's an expensive book and quite possiblly, a very rare and valuable resource. It's probably the result of a very long course of study and a lot of hard work. I think it's a rare opportunity for Westerners to get a glimpse into the art of Buddhist debate. When you think of the time, effort, travel expense, and time lost from work that would be involved in the average Westerner getting exposure to these methods from a credible resource, I actually think it's quite a bargain (assuming, of course, its a good book). It's no more than your average undergraduate textbook, quite a bit less than many in fact. For anyone seriously interested in the intellectual and analytic aspect of Buddhism, I think it's probably well worth the cost, as long as you can put together a group of like minded folks to debate... I know folks who spend that much on a couple of boxes of good incense, a fancy mala, or a pair of jeans... (not to mention a bag of weed....) And if you wait a few months, you can get it from Amazon for ~ $50, and if you're patient you can probably get a used copy for even less

It reminds me a little bit of "Needle to the Bottom of the Sea" as done by Chen Pan Ling...

The Ch'an masters left us wonderful "pith" views, if you will... Words that capture the experience of the non-dual. I enjoy reading them very much. I wonder how many people are led to an experience of the Nature of Mind simply through reading these poems and stories? Huang Po - "This pure mind, which is the source of all things, shines forever with the radiance of its own perfection. But most people are not aware of it, and think that mind is just the faculty that sees, hears, feels, and knows. Blinded by their own sight, hearing, feeling, and knowing, they don't perceive the radiance of the source. If they could eliminate all conceptual thinking, this source would appear, like the sun rising through the empty sky and illuminating the whole universe. Therefore, you students of the Tao who seek to understand through seeing, hearing, feeling, and knowing, when your perceptions are cut off, your way to mind will be cut off and you will find nowhere to enter. Just realize that although mind is manifested in these perceptions, it is neither part of them nor separate from them. You shouldn't try to analyze these perceptions, or think about them at all; but you shouldn't seek the one mind apart from them. Don't hold on to them or leave them behind or dwell in them or reject them. Above, below, and all around you, all things spontaneously exist, because there is nowhere outside the Buddha mind."

Cool! I just wanna learn to do the stomp…

I don't practice the yantra yoga shown above but I do practice kum nye and tsa lung which are somewhat similar. I also practice taiji, qigong, xingyi, and bagua (and taught for ~ 9 years). I find the Tibetan practices do offer benefits that I did not get out of the Chinese practices. It's hard to quantify or be terribly specific but the kum nye seems to be creating a strength and flexibility that I did not get out of the other practices. Not necessarily "better" but different. The tsa lung is energetically amazing. It has helped to clear blockages that have resulted in major breakthroughs for me in emotional and psychological areas. The two have also enhanced and stabilized my meditation in a way that did not happen with the Chinese work. That said, the Chinese martial arts and qigong certainly offer things that the Tibetan practices don't. They're not interchangeable. I think that it's important to identify what you're looking for in your practice and follow the path that takes you there most directly. I still practice the taiji and bagua and occasionally qigong but the Tibetan practices have taken a very central role in my daily routine. Just my personal experience, YMMV…

Great chart! Thank you for that - I love Yogi Egyptian Licorice but will now substitute Traditional Medicinals' Licorice Root. One problem is that I drink a lot of Taiwanese high mountain Oolong and I don't think there's any credible info out there on what's in it in terms of pesticides…

For some reason this makes me think of Silence of the Lambs…

In my view, normal is pathological. To the Buddhist, "normal" is samsara. To the Toltec, "normal" is the mitote. Normal is ignorance. Normal is a complex set of agreements to which we are indoctrinated from birth with little hope of avoidance. And these agreements, in general, blind us to the truth of who and what we are. It's a momentous occasion when we see through normal and get a glimpse of truth. I don't really do anything with the specific intention of shaking people up. I do try to live true to my values and this often does have that effect anyway… Three wonderful ways to shake people up I learned from Anthony Demello: 1. return love for hate 2. include the excluded 3. admit you are wrong "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti

Losar Tashi Delek everyone! Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche gave an inspirational talk in honor of the New Year this afternoon: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/44429759

Awareness

Just received Inner Peace 2 which I ordered from Ani's website. Absolutely beautiful

I'd become lucid in the dream and wake up for real....