doc benway

a sight to behold! reflecting blue light above witch head nebula

Imagine that a close friend came to you with this same story. How would you react? Hopefully you would listen patiently and offer warmth, support, and encouragement. Now offer this generosity and kindness to yourself. Don't be angry but do learn from the experience. Your mind and body are telling you what they think about alcohol, weed, unhealthy food, and so forth. Don't expect to change all of your behaviors over night. I promise there will be ups and downs. Punishing yourself is not as productive as learning from the experiences and starting again with a fresh outlook and enthusiasm. Good luck!

Worthy of repeating.... Thank you

colorful sun shields... the investigating eye from the subtle view.

Dogmatic views on spiritual practices are rarely accurate or helpful, be they Christian, Buddhist, Daoist, or other... Consequently, I'd like to offer an opposing position. There are many effective ways to cultivate, many ways to meditate, many ways to heal, fight, and grow. I disagree with much of what Starjumper has posted in this thread. His methods and school clearly have their bias and perspective. Out of respect, I will assume that it is a traditional, credible, and effective approach. That does not mean that it is the only approach or that alternative approaches are incorrect or less effective. The microcosmic orbit has very successful and safe applications in a variety of Daoist schools. In my system it is both a foundation practice and an advanced practice. The major problem, as I see it, is that the majority of Daoist methods require supervision by an experienced guide and such teachers are few and far between. The MCO has been popularized in the West in a number of books and videos but I've never seen a published resource that is anything like what my teacher taught me regarding this practice. Furthermore, the published resources do not provide feedback, guidance, correction, and so forth. This is a very subtle practice that requires accuracy more than anything else, and that is tough to achieve without personal instruction. Practices, such as the MCO, are generally only harmful or ineffective when misused without the benefit of skillful guidance. I mean no disrespect and have no interest in debating the point, just wanted to offer an alternative perspective. Peace.

What about something to do with national parks, forestry, and so forth? Something up in the mountains, perhaps - maybe even a ski resort or hiking guide. I have a friend whose son moved to Alaska, got his pilot's license, and works as a guide. Lot's of possibilities out there. Until then, don't be discouraged - just practice. I have a demanding and stressful job, family obligations, live in a populated area... Not easy to find time for formal practice so I do what I can and try to make everything I do an opportunity for practice. Over time, it is surprising how much one can bring meditative practice into one's busy, daily life. Good luck!

Exactly - it all boils down to that. The only response I'll give to that - it is nothing that anyone can tell you, show you, explain, or capture in words. It transcends the conceptual mind. You must see it for yourself. Lot's of methods to try and help, none are guaranteed and some have no need of method. Good luck with your practice!

I don't really consider my self an -ist of any sort so ignore my response if you're only interested in folks who consider themselves Daoist. I do practice Daoist meditation methods, qigong, and internal martial arts. For me it started with the martial arts and qigong. Then my teacher offered to teach me meditation methods and it changed my life for the better. So now, the martial arts have become secondary to the spiritual practices. I am doing it to improve the quality of life for myself, my family, and those around me. I'm doing it because once exposed to even a small glimpse of truth, nothing else is quite as appealing. The lies and ignorance that we are immersed in become more and more obvious and one prefers to be closer to truth. "they wanted to understand nature...master it...and then overcome it..to no longer be bound to "cycles" and natural/universal laws but instead be outside of these "cycles" and above these laws...to be immortal! To defy aging and death(biologically and consciousness-wise) is to defy nature itself." I disagree with this assertion. This is a common misconception. The Daoist is looking to come closer to and assimilate with nature and her cycles and laws. Anyone looking to master nature, overcome nature laws and so forth, is not Daoist, IMO. Proper practice and application can give the appearance to the uninitiated of super powers but that is a natural side effect of the methods and no one masters, overcomes, or is outside of our true nature.

I'll add another question - How do we determine whose authority to accept to validate our interpretation? Sometimes, authorities are readily available and largely credible, sometimes not. Buddhism vs Daoism illustrates this point. However, even when there is an authority present, accepting that authority equates to simple belief. Belief = a fervent hope that an explanation is valid, in the absence of direct knowledge. This is not what we are after, in general. Belief is cheap and often misleading. It's easy to change our beliefs but not our nature. What we are after is truth. So I think it is important to go after direct experience whenever possible and to attempt to validate that based on whether or not it is moving us towards, rather than away from, living our lives consistent with our core values and in harmony with our surroundings. And I think it's perfectly OK to simply not know. Rather than adopt a belief, what about becoming comfortable with the absence of knowledge, without replacing it with a belief? John O'Donnell speaks beautifully about the opporutnities provide by the abscence of knowing - the questioning that exists there concerning paradox. There is an openness and poteniality that doesn't exist when we replace questions with beliefs.

I think that most people misunderstand the concept of reincarnation. When looked at from the relative perspective there are all sorts of judgements, expectations, desires, and aversions. When viewed from the perspective of spaciousness and clarity, there are no such distinctions.

[sorry Mark] No more narrow views The wide angle lens of mind Captures all... at once.

TI - thank you for sharing this

tomorrow again and, as if yesterday was - distractions from now

I find it interesting and perhaps important to remind myself that it is the "controlling faculty" that "comes to cease without remainder" and not necessarily the experience of "discomfort", "unhappiness", "ease", and "happiness". It's wonderful to see where this thread has been and is going. I don't have time to catch up but will try to do so later. Thanks for all of the great contributions all.

Same with life and arising, no?

I think this is a great and challenging line of inquiry. Most of the characteristics we are describing and perhaps attributing to Dao, are simply projections. Caring is a human characteristic (and perhaps some other sentient beings, let's leave that alone for the time being). Preference is a human characteristic. It is Tao that gives them life: It is Virtue that nurses them, grows them, fosters them, shelters them, comforts them, nourishes them, and covers them under her wings. Notice that Tao gives life but does not participate in all of these other activities, these are related to Virtue. Virtue is yet another characteristic of humanity. In this way, the Dao De Jing is inviting us to manifest virtue in our lives as this is what will shelter, nurse, nourish, comfort, and so forth. Very Buddhist sounding sentiment to my ears (and Abrahamic...). The rain is the same no matter where it falls, and yet it nourishes thorns in the desert and roses in the garden. Dao kills, maims, and destroys as easily and without emotion, as it gives life. The hurricane and cancer do not spare the virtuous any more than the evil... So we, as humans, are the very manifestation of caring and love and the bad stuff too... So Dao certainly does embrace those aspects of beauty and caring and yet there is equal balance with the bad. And all of that is expressed through us and experienced through us.

Disclaimer - below is simply my opinion FWIW. I think it's important, although potentially confusing, to recognize that each of these "bodies" is a creation of our mind. All of these various bodies are labels the mind creates to distinguish different characteristics that we can perceive through our various senses and modes of perception. You are what you are, and the best way to investigate exactly what that is requires patience, diligence, and awareness, Awareness, AWARENESS. Don't let the thought that refers to itself as the thinker get you too distracted with theory. If you have arrived at the point where you can sit in deep meditation and feel open and spacious, that is valuable. Labeling it is not. Keep practicing. From time to time it's fine to read theory and as you have deeper experience the meaning buried under the words will progressively reveal itself. But be careful not to let the intellect disturb the practice.

I think that's pretty special...

No saving involved. In fact, I think the practice does alot more for me than for the objects of my affection. On a related note, I recently listened to Allan Wallace talk about what we mean by "all sentient beings." It can be difficult to genuinely visualize "all sentient beings" and can feel a bit contrived. He suggests that we begin with visualizing everyone we personally have come into contact with in a finite period of time. That can then be gradually extended in space and time to encompass as many beings (and it's not limited to peopled) that we care to include. I thought it was a nice little helpful hint.

Any self respecting Jew, Christian, or Muslim would probably categorize me as a heathen if we had a few minutes to discuss theology together. I practice tonglen periodically (not everyday day) and think it's a beautiful practice.

Thanks Rene - I just looked at the wiki article and highly recommend that anyone interested in the Zhuangzi read it. I didn't realize this but the Peng/Kun myth actually started with the Zhuangzi - I thought it predated him. The wiki article is very informative and gets into some interesting interpretations of the story. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peng_(mythology)

Unlikely - peng is a mythological creature that is a very large bird, similar to a roc in Western mythology. It's frequently encountered in Chinese mythology and often in the names of Chinese martial arts postures and movements. I'm no scholar, but I think Zhuangzi would have said dragon if he meant dragon as it has very specific connotations.

I feel equally sorry for them and will include them in my tonglen practice. Thank you

I assume you have no wish to take the challenge. I'm saddened but not surprised. Again - best wishes to you my friend. I sincerely hope you find what you need to ease your suffering.

Actually, I think you need quite a bit more lecturing, but it would be much better coming from someone whose opinion you respect, so I'll do my best to stop after this post. I challenge you to do the following either as a thought experiment or in reality: 1. Think of someone, anyone, that you respect as a moral and ethical authority or guide - preferably someone living 2. Gather together every post you've submitted to the TaoBums (or any other forum) over the past year 3. Ask that your guru or guide read these posts and offer you their perspective 4. Open yourself to learning from the experience I wish you peace and ease from your suffering. Namaste