doc benway

I’m sorry, I didn’t intend to embarrass you. I know it’s not your first language - just trying to be helpful.

Mental, not mantle

Then why not discuss them in the context of using the body to cultivate the mind? It seems to me they are an integral part of that discussion.

@ChiDragon How would one go about cultivating the mind using the body bypassing qi and shen?

Or PeeWee’s Playhouse!

Yes IMO, The body serves as an excellent “object of meditation” as it is deeply connected to the mind, always available, and offers many areas and opportunities for focus.This helps train the mind to remain in the present moment, a critical skill for approaching realization. One focuses the mind on the body at rest (asanas, zhan zhuang), and develops the ability to focus on the continuously moving body (esp. taijiquan) which naturally leads to discovering stillness in movement. This in turn fosters deeper realization through transcending the illusory separation between inner and outer, mind and body, self and other, organism and environment. I can’t say this is effective for everyone but it has great potential for the right practitioner under the right circumstances.

I don’t want to hijack this thread. If you’d like to discuss these other things, better to start a new one.

Karma

No, although that would be a beneficial side effect. Direct contact with nature and the elements has healing and nourishing effects. That’s my point.

To clarify, I agree that different people need different things but I do feel that everyone can benefit from more connection to nature and the elements, in whatever specific form they prefer or require. We are too far from our roots, IMO, from our mother, whether that be in our thoughts and emotions, in our cellphones, online, in our complicated and demanding lives. We have lost touch with our fundamental nature. Farm animals are somewhat of a corruption of nature - they are prisoners and products of human genetic tinkering. While some may find contact with them supportive, I’m talking more about the wildness of nature, removed from human artifice. And like everything I say, it’s just my opinion. I appreciate the disagreement, it’s an opportunity for me to learn something.

For what my opinion is worth, there is no knowledge more real than what one can learn by connecting with nature with a quiet mind and open heart. Nothing more healing than spending some time in a forest or a meadow, a mountain or uncrowded beach connecting with the five elements. I wish you well in your recovery and appreciate you sharing your experience here.

release that caged bird without opening the door rest in clear presence

Mod note - While it sounds as if some very bad things went down surrounding SOTG, publishing names and other personal information here is strictly prohibited. A thread has been hidden as a result pending moderator review. Please DO NOT post anyone’s personal information here.

Very sad to read some of the lunacy going on under the guise of spirituality or cultivation.

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@Straybird You may want to share your invitation on these threads: Good luck with your endeavor!

What if the founder called it something completely different and some adepts centuries later change the terminology? What gives them exclusive control of how the words are interpreted by subsequent generations and speakers of different languages? Words are a bit like art in that way, the listener takes away what they can or what they choose from the word, not necessarily the original intent, like it or not.

And what exactly is the fruit of their labor? A plum, a peach, a cherry? And when they’ve finished eating, do they jump into the pit? BTW, the dzogchen pith instructions are a good source of fiber…

@Taoist Texts How do linguists deal with English words like bow, bark, reel, row, nail, season, squash, novel, lead, racket, and list, just to name a few? I was always taught we distinguish ambiguous meaning based on context. It happens all the time. And euphemisms take it up a notch…

@GreenMan @ilumairen Yes, I am able to merge both accounts or delete either one. I can also help restore your access to the old account if you prefer. Please let me know. Steve

Some random thoughts... Dorje and vajra are not often used in Bön teachings in my (limited) experience. The word Bön is generally used instead. Both dorje/vajra and Bön are used to refer to indestructible, invincible, unchangeable, hence the association with the 'prince of stones' or diamond. This is why the Nazis adopted the symbol for Bön, the yungdrung (swastika), as a symbol that the third reich would be indestructible. And by extension this is used as a metaphor for the unalterable Truth or Reality, the Nature of Mind, innate Buddhahood. This truth cuts through all illusion, hence the association with thunderbolt or the weapon of Indra - a cudgel of irresistible spiritual power. Leading to the term vajrayana - vehicle of indestructible reality or vehicle of unalterable truth or something like that.

Sorry to intrude like this but you are also highly educated and a scholar, if I'm not mistaken. Do you maintain that each and every word in every language has a single unique and exclusive meaning? PS - རྡོ་རྗེ is two letters, not four, as is वज्र

Such a good point. Just like corporatized "news" has taken advantage of our attraction to stimulation and emotional subject matter, people are drawn by the sensationalized spiritual practices (sexual practice, drilling holes in heads, enlightenment, immortality, power). In the end these traditions all point to the inner journey we must take through the mundane, the painful, the dysfunctional, even the wonderful things in our lives in order to make a connection with something much more pervasive, profound, and powerful... I haven't read or listened to Ian Baker before but maybe I'll check him out.

@Taoist Texts I recently came across the book Taoist Chanting and Recitation by Stuart Alve Olson. It contains a variety of chants and recommendations for daily practice that the author received from his teacher TT Liang, who in turn received them from Liu Peizhong. The liturgical sources are said to come from The Highest Treasury of Truth Scripture of the Quan Zhen sect and attributed to Lu Dongbin. It contains a number of other scriptures as well and Olson's translation of the Dao De Jing. I've just started to look through and like what I see so thought I'd mention it here for anyone interested in resources associated with Liu Peizhong, Dragon Gate, or Complete Reality traditions.

Another interpretation of realization is manifestation of the three bodies.