doc benway

I sort of see it that way as well. One part of the mind wants to control another part - intellect, rational, moral part opposes the intuitive, irrational, emotional part. And there are some benefits for sure - eat right, exercise, cultivate healthy relationships, create stuff. And all the emotional, intuitive stuff is important too, especially for creativity and relationships. What I think is important is balance more than mastery or control but all have their place at different points in our lives. For me, this is the place of meditation. No other way to penetrate the veil. No way to describe it or define it. Intellect and rationality have their limits, as do emotion and intuition.

That's a bit like blaming a gun for shooting someone... Who pulls the trigger? I think both are needed so which to blame? I tend to think the problem is more one of personal responsibility. The gun can do nothing sitting on the ground by itself. Sadly, humanity is behaving very much like a cancer. Our Mother Earth is the patient, we are spreading unchecked, using up all possible resources, choking out all competitors for said resources, damaging and toxifying our Mother's body with no concern for the future. I don't see it ending well for us but most of the time I manage not to dwell on it too much.

I saw an exhibit of her work at the MOMA in NYC a few years back - magnificent! And her history is fascinating.

Interesting this idea of “mastering” oneself. I think it’s worth exploring that. Who or what is master? Who or what is slave/subject? Over what specific processes and activities is the master in control? Great territory for personal investigation but it requires a very deep dive and my observation is that the answers come not from mental processes but through open and unfabricated awareness.

Just watched Stutz, one of the few films mentioned in this thread that speaks to me about enlightenment. Although trigger alert! it talks a little about visualization! 🤣

@Shadow_self Give it a rest, take the opportunity to self reflect and move on please. We always see ourselves more clearly when we’re able to integrate others’ observations. Thanks

Awareness is most definitely the first and most basic step towards self-knowledge and cultivation. For me, diminishing its importance with the word "only" is misleading as pointed out in dwai's response. Knowledge and intelligence are extremely valuable and should not be neglected. On the other hand, being aware of our state of being is everything as there is nothing else possible without it - no knowledge, no intelligence, no interpretation, no management. The other comment I'd like to offer is with respect to a "correct interpretation" of what we feel and how we manage that. I agree this is critically important territory but also can be quite tricky and subtle. Most of our lives, thoughts, emotions, and actions are determined by our childhood conditioning, our genetics, our education, our culture, political bias, and so forth. The intellect is extraordinarily beautiful and powerful but equally destructive and dysfunctional - yin/yang. Becoming aware of this fact and rooting out the reactive and maladaptive patterns that hide in us in plain sight is, IMO, that very process of finding correct interpretation and proper management. If one believes that "just being aware" is less difficult than thinking and planning, analyzing and managing; I challenge you to simply sit and do nothing for an hour, nothing at all but be completely connected to everything going on in and around you with attention. Then bring this level of awareness to a variety of activities throughout your normal day, just for a few minutes, especially when faced with challenges that bring on emotional reactivity or times of great joy and excitement. Do this for a few weeks and I propose that your life will change in ways you never anticipated. Just my random and biased thoughts. It's really nice to see you posting about this topic Kojiro. Thank you for starting the discussion.

You’re welcome, there is no extra charge for this critical element of your training, Grasshopper…. 🤣

I voted "I don't know." Believing oneself to be an arahannt, one is already lost. Belief is a mental construct created in the absence of knowing, an acceptance of another's claim. It has no place and no value on the path, IMO, especially with respect to one's own level of attainment. It can only ever be an obstacle and a huge one at that. (ok, words like "no place," "no value," and "only ever" are a bit strong but not far from the truth) Whether the classical definition of an arahant is literal or figurative is irrelevant to the practice and the practitioner. As Liminal_Luke points out and as my teacher often says in retreat when asked questions about things like enlightenment and rainbow body... let's concern ourselves with that when we get there. It's not very helpful right now. It does not change what we do if we are practitioners. For me it is far better to simply admit... I don't know.... and continue to practice. When it comes, you will know - it is unquestionable... then continue to practice. If there are still sense desires, you need to be honest with yourself, allow the disappointment to be there in all its glory.... and continue to practice. Believing the texts to be too fantastical to be taken literally is also an obstacle. It means one is already projecting their misguided sense of limitations on something they know essentially nothing about. This belief will color and distort the practitioner's experience and influence their progress negatively. The conceptual games played by the lunatic that lives in one's head and claims the title "me" have nothing to do with spirituality or cultivation. It's more like gossip or playing a word jumble. Fact is, they are the obstacle. The nature of the supposed signs of attainment in my practice are changes, some subtle and some profound, that occur in my life and relationships; tangible changes that others often notice before I do. There are very many signs related to different practices and levels of progress. In the classic teachings there are literal signs described, there are figurative signs, there are metaphors, there are examples, there are many different ways that the ancient masters attempted to transmit very precise knowledge that is essentially ineffable. The method for discerning and validating one's progress in my adopted tradition is threefold - 1. Listen to the teachings of a qualified master and reflect on them 2. Actualize the teaching in your own experience 3. Compare your experience to the various signs, metaphors, and descriptions in the classic writings When all three come together and are consistent, you can be confident in your progress. Nothing One must actualize the teachings in one's own practice, compare that to the teacher's instructions, and to the classic writings. If all three converge and agree, that is validation. It is an error to trust even the greatest teacher and their interpretation. Equally risky to trust one's experience alone. If one finds it difficult to understand something it is perfectly OK to let that something go - there is little value in believing or disbelieving. Far better to acknowledge that one doesn't know or doesn't understand and allow oneself to be open to the possibility that a deeper and clearer understanding, perhaps to the level of knowing, will arise at some point. It is very difficult. In fact, I would say this is almost always the case if you are not connected both to a living person that has gone before as well as the classic teachings of a credible lineage as a benchmark and reference. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. And all of this is nothing other than my subjective and biased opinion.

There's a surgical procedure to fix that... .... then again, those people who don't feel like they can be "who they are" here in our little snow globe are probably not OK with the people who have surgery to be more comfortable with who they are... ... ironic, isn't it? ps - in case it’s not obvious this is intended as humor, I don’t mean to offend

Watching a group of dedicated practitioners practice martial qigong like Shiba Luohan Shou (十八羅漢手) would likely leave you feeling a bit differently. That said I know exactly what you mean. Good luck finding what works for you.

💯 Clearly! Nobody’s perfect… 😉 🤣 💯 💯 💯 Or listening to strangers online! Including me… 🙃 💯 Great and valuable post!

And even that expectation is pure and perfect provided we are undisturbed and continue to rest and be fully open in its presence.

I saw many practitioners who spent many years in the [Dzogchen] Community, and succeeded in learning to avoid an honest look at themselves. And I'm convinced, even now that I wrote these lines, many of you have already read them and say to yourself: ′"This is not me, he is talking about another." Here is a good awareness practice to follow: once in the mind will arise a critical assessment of another person, switch up immediately and try on this judgment on yourself. Then, instead of developing your negative judgements, you can really succeed in the development of your awareness. This is one of the meanings of the symbol 'mirror'. Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

I was just coming here to post this film. Watched it last night, quite dark and absolutely brilliant! Now I need to watch In Bruges.

A few recent favorites - Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell The Bone Clocks by David Mitchell The Overstory by Richard Powers Hail Mary by Andy Weir Kindred by Octavia Butler

We’ll simply have to agree to disagree. IMO if you only look outside you’re missing at least have the picture.

I think another piece of this puzzle is that our very nature as biological organisms, our physiology and anatomy, creates such a powerful illusion of separateness, of being wholly encased in a bag of skin, of mind-body separation, of consciousness coming out of the brain ... all of that is extremely tricky to see through, particularly as you point out in such a deeply materialistic and deterministic culture and society. Perhaps there are ominous and hidden forces at play to keep the status quo (certainly there are to some degree) but I think it's also somewhat hard-wired into us in this current form.

I think there's a lot of truth to this. On the other hand, if one digs a little deeper into science in the 20th and 21st centuries it is very clear that there are large gaps in our understanding and the power of secular scientism to explain everything, even the most fundamental aspects of our experience is lacking (eg dark matter, the nature of consciousness, our inability to reconcile relativistic and quantum theories, etc...). I think fields of inquiry and paradigms like quantum mechanics, organism-environment system theory in biology, Luhman's social systems theory, the nature of time, the structure of space, and so on, are pointing to those very same truths we may discover when we explore that internal knowledge and wisdom. Books like those by Carlo Rovelli (relational quantum theory), The Dancing Wu Li Masters by Gary Zukov, The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra, Time's Arrow and Archimedes' Point by Huw Price, Time Space and Knowledge by Tarthang Tulku, and and many others play with these themes in interesting ways. As an aside, I recently learned more about a cousin of mine that I'd never known who was a theoretical physicist that specialized in nuclear theory and particle physics. He was especially interested in the asymmetry between matter and antimatter and the physics of ''time reversal." I've tried reading some of his books and papers but they're way over my head.

If that is your position there is a world of wisdom and knowledge that you may be neglecting. The very process of wu wei is connecting to a deeper and richer source of wisdom and knowledge that can only be accessed internally. And yes, that is related to neidan but it is also related to this discussion, IMO.

I recently learned of accusations of sexual impropriety, or worse, by someone in a position of authority. The details aren’t clear yet and the victims are hesitant to come forward for fear of retribution. When I met this person several years ago they were funny, engaging, and empathetic but there was this underlying current I could feel that was disturbing. Nothing I could define clearly and I never would have picked up on it if we hadn’t interacted in person. Such people are truly masters. Masters of manipulation, misdirection, and subterfuge. Their true powers are engendering trust and hiding in plain sight. This is how they become successful at their game. They’re very good at it and often hard to recognize. They know how to make us feel good and take advantage of that, we’ve all heard the word grooming. It’s likely that SOTG didn’t change all that much but, as he set his hooks in people, dropped some of the artifice and began showing his true face, his deeper desires and motives. When followers begin to see through the nice guy routine they resort to fear and intimidation. Sure, power over others, attention and adoration can seem to change a person but I think it’s more of an unveiling of what’s already there than a real change in most cases. PS - I don't claim expertise in the subject but I know and have known both victims and perpetrators of a cult as well as victims and perpetrators of sexual harassment and assault and have heard and observed some of their experiences and behavior directly. Few of us are invulnerable to such predators.

Wishing everyone a Happy New Year, may it be peaceful and plentiful! Thank you @Trunk and @liminal_luke and José for the beautiful banner. https://ravencypresswood.com/author/rcw108/

Not seeing results in 100 days of consistent practice can mean a few things. You may have received poor or inadequate instruction and guidance, details often matter. You may not have understood the instructions clearly or may not be practicing with accuracy and precision, this is where in person instruction can be highly advantageous. Your expectations may be unreasonable. The particular method may not be a good fit based on your karma. The effects of qigong, even when practiced optimally, can be subtle and difficult to recognize. While it certainly can take longer than 100 days to see the kind of results you may hope for, there should be some clear perceptible effects of practice in that time frame, that's where that number comes from. It is said there are 3 ingredients (some say more) to a successful outcome - - a capable teacher - a credible lineage - a dedicated student For these things to come together, proper conditions must come together. For some, better sleep, nutrition, physical exercise and activity may boost vitality better than qigong. "Expanding consciousness" may be more easily achieved through meditation. Good luck in your search!

Reading some of the descriptions of what went on with SOTG's group, a few warning signs that are often seen among manipulative and abusive teachers are worth emphasizing IMO. Beware of spiritual teachers who: - teach exclusively online - maintain anonymity - ask for personal information - give the impression that they are the only source of what you need - try and impress, recruit, or control with special powers, insight, or knowledge - maintain that their approach is the only path or that they alone understand the truth - try to convince you that other paths are wrong - emphasize sexuality or treat people differently based on gender If something with a teacher feels wrong or off, it probably is. If your health or spirit seems to be suffering, it is likely the bullshit they are feeding you rather than whatever explanation they provide. It can be healthy and eye-opening to ask someone outside of the group that you (used to?) trust for their for perspective on what is going on and how it appears to be affecting you and your relationship with them. The manipulator anticipates this and teaches us not to trust anyone else. It's very hard to see through this. Here are some additional warning signs - https://www.alexandrastein.com/warning-signs.html