doc benway

Nice post Encephalon. Yeah, it's pretty clear that America is fairly fucked up, psychologically. And it's no wonder given the enormous amounts of money spent on fostering consumerism, keeping us locked into our societal hallucination, and the complicity of our lawmakers. It puts me in mind of the French decadence leading up to the revolution... .

I really enjoy the study of Japanese swords - really interesting stuff.

Be well Cameron.

I have no capoeira experience but I LOVE Brazilian music, capoeira rhythms are everywhere in the music. I play around with the Berimbau too!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mod Squad A "Group Meditation" forum has been created in the Personal Practice Discussion area. Please use that forum to facilitate communication to support the group meditation project. Please let the mod team know if we can do anything more to help. Enjoy Mod Out ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mod Squad A "Group Meditation" forum has been created in the Personal Practice Discussion area. Please use that forum to facilitate communication to support the group meditation project. Please let the mod team know if we can do anything more to help. Enjoy Mod Out ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hopefully it wasn't something expressed from the tail section of an airplane...

Dawei is correct. Golden elixir is the name given to the saliva that collects during Daoist meditation. It is a part of the alchemical process by which Jing is converted to Qi. It is encouraged through proper placement of the tongue and is considered very precious and pure, hence the name "golden elixir." Rainy_Day - many thanks on your work here. Your translations are quite good and it is wonderful to read some of this and compare it with my practice.

I've been very impressed with Rainy_Day's contributions to our community and I'm very confident that there are great things to come. He does not sound like a newcomer to me but a wise, old soul.

Dao De Jing is the purest of poetry. Poetry is an attempt to convey through words that which cannot be reduced to words. This was not written by one man over a period of time, it was written by all men and it is timeless.

Well said TM. I often feel that this is how the world works including and not limited to the genesis of Dao De Jing. This explanation is truly the shamanic approach.

That argument is not valid since most modern scholarship suggests that there was no single author to the document. Some of it is probably older and was passed along by oral tradition, in which case rhyme was likely to have been used. Other material was probably added later. You are welcome to ignore what you choose but others may find additional insight using a more comprehensive, open, and holistic approach. I would encourage people to look beyond just the meaning of the words. After all, that's a fundamental message of DDJ. It is a finger... not the moon.

To separate the two is to close your mind to possibility. Can you support your second statement with some evidence? It is likely that Dao De Jing, or at least elements of it, was an oral transmission before it was written down. As such, poetic structure would have been an important part of the memorization and transmission. In fact, some of the wording may well have been intentionally poetic and taking that into consideration can help improve understanding. Similarly, there is no advantage to look at the DDJ as a shamanistic work or as a philosophical work. There is an advantage to looking at it as both. In that way we are open to more understanding, not limiting our understanding based on bias and interpretation.

Paradoxical, for sure. Also, cyclical. There are times when we are attached to and connected to our suffering and those are good times to immerse ourselves in it. Feel it fully so that it can wash over and through us. I think during those times it can be valuable to see that process through. Fighting it or hiding it just gives it strength. And once we have seen it through far enough, the light begins to dawn. And when we have adequately burned away the pain, I think we can let the ash fall away. Then we can stand fresh and new in celebration in the light. I think that the goal can be to do yourself justice. To be as authentic and sincere and gentle with yourself as you can be. Everything else will take care of itself.

Looking at whether Dao De Jing is shamanistic or philosophical tells me more about the person offering their opinion and more about our collective ideas about shamanism and philosophy thank it tells me about Dao De Jing. I think that approaching any teachings as a philosophy or as a manifestation of shamanism is limiting. Philosophy and shamanism are human constructs. What is... is. How we look at it can be labeled in various ways. Our methods for approaching 'what is' are limited and limiting. In fact, that is an important lesson I've learned from Dao De Jing. I think that the more open we can be and active we can be in approaching a teaching, the more we can learn. Nice thread, flowing hands.

Sorry guys, nothing more I can do at this point. Sean is aware.

Unfortunately, not a single study about clinical bone healing in that list, or anywhere else I've looked. There is one study in that list discussing pathologic changes in bone in rabbits in which they created fractures and looked at the healing bone in sacrificed animals with and without Qigong but there's not enough raw data there to really reach any conclusions. Actually, complementary medicine is very popular right now in many major university hospitals. This is also the place where it is possible to get funding and interest in research. The residents, interns, and medical students are always looking for a project and it's relatively easy to get a supervising faculty member. As far as the "western medical profession" being "not interested" that's no longer the case. There is a very strong push for integration of complementary practices. It's widespread among primary care physicians and very well represented in the universities and growing steadily. Some major universities with such programs are University of Maryland, University of Colorado, Thomas Jefferson, Columbia, University of Wisconsin, Robert Wood Johnson,... the list goes on and on. The time it takes to do the treatments you describe certainly wouldn't fit into a Western physician's schedule but it would be very easy to refer to qualified Qigong practitioners. Many docs nowadays are referring readily to massage therapists, acupuncturists, a variety of other energy healers, nutritionists, yoga, taijiquan, chiropractic, etc... The issue is, you simply need to demonstrate the safety and efficacy of a treatment plan to get the Western docs to refer. If anyone is serious about the value of this treatment, designing and finding support for a well designed study would be a very worthwhile undertaking, IMO. Glad to hear you are getting good results with your methods. Someone needs to do the experimental work so that the Western system will acknowledge the value, add credibility, and get it PAID for. One major issue currently is that people have to pay out of pocket for much of this treatment which limits it's availability severely, and the only way that will change is by demonstrating efficacy and outcomes through well-designed trials.

If you haven't already read it, Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan Jacoby, is a very good read that touches on the topics at hand.

Can you share any references that support this other than anecdotal evidence? Since fracture healing is relatively easy to measure by physical exam and X-ray, it should be very easy to design a randomized, controlled trial and document this with solid data. Thanks

Daoism (Taoism) is about coming more into contact with and living in accordance with our true nature. At least that's my one line description. The most important principle to live by are Wu Wei and Zi Ran. These are worth investigating on this forum and elsewhere. Meditation is a good way to allow the thinking mind to come more into contact with it's true nature. Otherwise, it sort of runs amok and leads us to act in a very conditioned and robotic fashion. To study Daoist texts analytically and intellectually is antithetical to the intention of the Daoists, IMO. I think it is more valuable to read the classics in small bits and then see how what they are saying can be applied to or recognized in your daily life. One way I have been applying this in my life is to identify my own core values - the things that are truly important to me at a deep and personal level. This reflects the nature of who I am and who I would like to be. To do this requires a great deal of awareness. It takes a long time to really get to know yourself. And getting to know yourself also means getting to know everyone and everything around you. There is no better window into yourself than the mirror of relationship, both with people and the environment. I then try to make choices in my life that are consistent with those core values rather than go against them. Similarly, I try to make choices that allow me live in accordance with what actually exists in reality as opposed to what my expectations or desires may tell me. When my expectations or desires are in conflict with what actually exists, I am in conflict with what is - that goes against the fundamental Daoist principle of Wu Wei. Hang out here, read some of the stuff, and enjoy!

I wrote a long response and deleted it. It's bound to come across as more negative than I would like. If you have any interest in discussing this by PM, please drop me a line. I have a lot of interest and experience when it comes to bone healing. Be well

Bone-setters can never reconnect a break. The best they can do is optimize the alignment and conditions for healing to occur. Healing of bone is as good an example of Zi Ran as I can think of. It is "of itself so." No intervention needed. Even when we speak of things like magnetic stimulation, medical manipulation, and surgical manipulation, we are just creating the best possible environment. It is you who heal your bones.

If what you say here is true, that means that it is impossible to practice Qigong an abide by Wu Wei at the same time...

Very nice posts Vmarco. A nice and accessible source of some of this info is the movie "The God Who Wasn't There." You go into considerably more detail. Thanks for that.