doc benway

That's my teacher's position as well. He tends to tell me that I'm welcome to waste my time reading or I can practice and actually understand.

The Tao Bums > Basement > Off Topic > The Pit Here - http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/forum/40-the-pit/ It is the (mostly) unmoderated area where folks can argue online...

They have not been deleted, only moved to the pit. Please keep this thread factual and on topic. If you must engage in drama, keep that in the pit.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Moderator action So I've split off the drama and sent it to the pit where it belongs. Those of you who like to argue on our forum can do it there. Please keep it out of this thread. Last warning. Later ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've played around with musical instruments since around 12 years old. My father used to hate it and would yell and scream and slam the door and once smashed an amp! It wasn't so funny at the time but I stuck with it anyway (maybe out of spite!) Guitar --> Bass --> String Bass --> Cello --> Classical Guitar --> Bass --> recently I've gotten into some Brazilian percussion instruments: the cuica and the berimbau - lot's of fun! I listen much better than I play but I have fun. My son is a wonderful musician, completely self-taught. Music is certainly food for the soul whether playing or listening... Cooking - I recently developed a desire to learn to cook well. It's coming along very slowly. I made the stuffing for Thanksgiving this year (first time) and was very proud of it. Hopefully, I'll stick with it and develop some skills but right now I have very little confidence in the kitchen... Here's a long but neat piece of classical guitar music by one of my favorite player/composers, Dusan Bogdanovic, Dusan is on the left and Gyan Riley (son of Terry Riley) on the right. The piece really gets cool at around the 5 minute mark -

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please take a break and do some Qigong guys. Otherwise I will send this to the pit. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When I started practicing Daoist meditation, I was drinking pretty regularly - wine most nights with dinner. Occasionally a few mixed drinks or a few beers instead. Not heavy but regular. After a few months of meditation I stopped completely. Meditation made me much more sensitive to the effects of any sort of intoxicants and I could feel the detrimental effects on developing skill in the methods. At the same time I become so sensitive to life that I quit eating meat and any sort of activity that caused harm to anything (I was really into fly fishing at the time and haven't gone near it since)... After a few years I began eating meat and drinking again but mostly a glass or two of wine on occasion - much less than before. I've also developed a bit of a thing for a caipirinha once in a while...

Best wishes Aaron- I'll miss your posts while you're gone. I hope things get better for you soon.

I agree with Rainbow Vein - it's nice to have you around hagar!

Interesting discussion. I can see my own opinions and biases as they have varied over the years played out among the various posts. It seems that there are as many different opinions as there are individuals. Solutions? A solution will never come from the outside. No political, religious, educational, social, or cultural movement, institution, or leader will ever solve our problems. No solution has come to us in the past 40,000 years or so of "civilization" and technology does not seem to be bring us closer. It provides many aids and tools and at the same time polarizes us further and gives us more opportunity for exploitation and opportunism. The only solution to humanity's problems is inside each of us. Some already feel it, others don't. When each of us personally feels the pain of the other, when we can no longer bear to eat, knowing there is a child starving. When our heart becomes big enough to hold the entire world, then the solution is obvious. Otherwise... .... so it goes....

I agree with you, Taiji is about the internal approach, the external postures can be anything.

Qigong is a methodology that combines movement, breathing, and awareness in order to achieve certain results. The majority of Qigong focuses on health and wellness, 8 Brocades is a good example. Some, such as the Shiba Luohangong, focus more on developing internal power to be used for martial development. Finally, Taiji forms are a very specialized form of Qigong that have been developed specifically more Taijiquan training. If you practice Taiji forms properly you are doing internal work that is very similar to but in some ways more complex than other Qigong forms in addition to the physical movement and breathing. Like other forms, you will experience energetic benefits from regular practice of the form. My teacher tells us that a properly constructed Taiji form is very much a full system energetic workout. In addition, the length of the Taiji forms, the incorporation of more complex footwork and stepping patterns, and other characteristics make the Taiji forms even more valuable (arguably) when it comes to things like balance, blood pressure, bone health, lung capacity, and other physical benefits. The real reason I referred to Tai forums as specialized is that their construction and associated internal training yields some very unique and specific benefits relative to martial arts skill. As far as these arts being Daoist, they clearly are consistent with Daoist methods and principles and are widely practiced by the Daoist community. The practice of Daoist meditation is perfectly aligned with Taiji form practice such that the combination of the two is much more effective than Taiji form practice alone. I can't comment on the historical perspective as I'm no authority. And frankly, it doesn't much matter. The practice is the practice regardless of how you label it.

Wu Wei can also be to not interfere... so what needs to get done, gets done, and with the necessary degree of focus. The feeling of lack of focus is a symptom of interference perhaps.

I learned from my teacher also, his favorite is Taiwanese High Mountain Wulong, especially the early Spring tea. We get some every year from Taiwan.

Nice thread Cameron. It's cool to see what brings us to this stuf... In my youth, I discovered Castaneda and Burroughs, along with the predictable accoutrements. I developed some sense of ecological and social responsibility, and Toltec sort of values. Then on to marathon education, a family and career, and all the beauty and bullshit that come along with living in the world. During that time I also practiced martial arts consistently. Around 10 years ago I started on the spiritual path in earnest after going through some serious family and personal trauma. Around the same time I read a bunch of stuff about Rwanda and Bosnia and got terribly depressed. Tried to get back into social activism. Got progressively more frustrated. Got inspired by some Buddhist and Daoist friends. But couldn't get out of my funk. I started really digging into myself and the world. I started to learn Taijiquan and after a year my Shifu let me start training in Daoist meditation and neigong. Those were the practices that have caused the most profound changes. Over the years I added some Bagua and Xingyi training. During those years I also read a LOT. My Shifu is not a philosopher and also preached practice over theory. So my readings have been very eclectic and led me in a number of interesting directions. Krishnamurti and Demello made a huge impression, also Ramana and Nisargadatta, and Watts and Osho (who helped me understand the Daoist classics). Lately I don't read too much (although manitou and suninmyeyes have turned me on to some wonderful books recently - thanks ladies!). I practice as much as I can, mainly meditation and neigong, Taiji, and, lately, a lot of Bagua. And I spend some time here, of course, kickin it with you fine folks. My main focus right now is to bring awareness and understanding to my relationships, work, and daily life; and maintain consistency with the Daoist practices. And so it goes...

He was a scammer. Took a lot of money from folks and killed a few with his incompetence. He should go to prison for longer, IMO. A sweat lodge is serious business, not something you make up after chewing some peyote. Here, I think we can really see the nature of the importance, or should I say value, of tradition and ritual.

Hey Mike, Don't let a troll get you down. I've informed informer that further trolling in this thread will earn him a suspension.

The current scholarly thinking is that Dao De Jing was put together from a number of sources over a period of time, hence repetition as well as other types of variation.

~~~~~~~~~~~ Mod Intervention Everyone please post in the pit in this thread if you want to continue the drama that informer is stirring up Please don't do it here Thank You Mod out ~~~~~~~~~~~

I agree with you. There is no such thing as an isolated living organism. In fact, I think this is the realization and experience that Wu Wei and Daoism in general is pointing us toward. You are not an organism in an environment - you are an organismenvironment. The design of the system is such that you are blessed with the sensory apparatus and awareness that has the side effect of creating the illusion of separateness. So let's take it to the next level. If you are not other than the environment, neither is any other living organism. The entire system is holistic. So then we come to consciousness. Consciousness is a manifestation of this organismenvironment somehow. I don't know how it arises or where it resides but, like you as an organism, the associated consciousness is not other than the consciousness of all other living things. So there is a universality of consciousness. Like the illusion of being separate based on our sensory apparatus, there is a similar illusion of independent consciousness. There are ways to explore this further. Thinking about emotion, for example. All humans experience the same spectrum of emotion to varying degrees - fear, excitement, anger, jealousy, it's all a universal human experience. And I would postulate that there is no consciousness in the absence of life and no life in the absence of consciousness. Even in the case of a coma, there are still feedback and regulatory mechanisms in place that would qualify as awareness at some level. And the fact that we are not separate from the environment also implies that, even if I were permanently comatose, I am still aware because I am the organismenvironment, not an isolated and independent entity, therefore the loss of one person's individual consciousness does not render that individual absent of consciousness because they are not separate from the environment. So, I hope I'm not trying too hard here. I'm not trying to convert, but if one is Daoist, that must eventually lead to an understanding or experience of oneness - organism and environment, and all the rest of it seems (to me at least) to follow naturally from there... Just some cool crap to think about.

I would tend to disagree with you on this point. It seems to me that those who connect with "universal consciousness" personally and directly have no need of gods or other creations of the mind. It tends to be folks who feel separate, who do not feel a connection, who feel insecure and in looking for security create gods. Another question that I think might be worthy of consideration in this context is - What is our relationship as human beings (or any living creature, for that matter) to our environment? Are we same or other? Continuous or discontinuous?

Nice post. I find it fascinating to explore this border of where I end and other begins. And what it means that something is in MY consciousness, and so on... Fun stuff. Interesting - electron interactions. Why not? Very interesting to think about where and how sentience may arise. And is it possible for sentience to see into the nature of itself? The overlap of physics and metaphysics is fascinating - ever read Amit Goswami? Was there such a state? If so, what would it have been like? I have no clue... But I think I would look at it a bit like death. In other words, death being the interval between life, as life is the interval between death. Singularity could be the interval between existence or manifestation, and existence the interval between singularity. All very entertaining to consider. Could the emergence of sentience have been the end of singularity and the beginning of manifestation? It would certainly make sense with the whole idea of "matter" and "consciousness" being inter-related and interdependent. The only problem is that I"m not sure I believe in a beginning and end. I believe in now, that's about it. Everything else is maybe so, maybe not...

And that's what counts, my perspective is my problem - your perspective's you problem! Or opportunity...

Of course it does, the universe is self aware, the rock is not other than the universe. I love ya brother! You fucking rock killer!

I love you exactly as you are! Worried about it? Not anymore - I used to be obsessed, now I still find it very interesting but more entertaining than distracting. Realizing that I'll never understand it but if I stop trying to, I'm already living it... that helped.