doc benway

Yes, that's a very nice parable and a good bit of advice. It reminds of the brilliant little video by Alan Watts, Trey Parker, and Matt Stone

This

Don't forget the corollary to that - reality creates us. Both truths coexist.

On the one hand, I feel like there is nothing that can be thought that is ever the thing, reality; we think in images and symbols, representations of reality. Paradoxically, is thought really separate from what is? And am I separate from thought? Am I separate from what is? I haven't gotten much past there yet... I really have no idea what the hell is going on.... but I like it!

Elimination A most natural process Look at this mommy!

Organized Christianity in the US was the strongest opponent to women's rights and emancipation in the 18th/19th century. I've always found it ironic that the African-American population (not to mention the female population) embraced the very institutions that fought tooth and nail to keep them down. I'm no authority on history but I tend to think that there's really nothing new psychologically and emotionally in humanity. Intolerance has plagued us forever and those preaching tolerance have always been a shining beacon for us to follow. Same with self esteem - always an issue for some, not so much for others. And just like today, official positions and institutional behavior aren't much reflective of the individuals they claim to represent.

Wonderful excerpt deci belle! I'm not normally a big fan of Cleary's books but I may just go out and buy this one. Is the rest of it worthwhile?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mod Team You make some valid points here so I've again brought this issue to the attention of the mod team for discussion Mod Out ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mind is more than flesh To be aware of myself I am divided PS - I was in Sedona this summer - wonderful!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mod Team Moved to off topic ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Talk? No, I don't think vocalizing really is necessary. Communicate? Yes. It's disturbing to me how we exploit trees and plants for our entertainment. We plant a variety of species in our gardens and landscapes, generally with no thought whatsoever other than visual appeal or some other benefit that we may derive. We cut and groom and fertilize and weed and I wonder whether we genuinely consider anything other than our own pleasure. I wonder if anyone ever considers whether our haphazard arrangement of plant life is conducive to a healthy and beneficial arrangement for the plants and trees themselves. They seem to cry out sometimes.

For me, the experience of Daoism has been very different with and without Daoist practices

It seems to me that human population is artificially elevated by technological advancement. We have usurped Earth's ecology with our intellectual prowess. The question is, can technology solve the problems it creates indefinitely? Or will we ever be able to let go of our addiction?

So I was training today (a particularly productive day) and when standing in bagua zhan zhuang I found myself looking at a tree. A young oak with a twisting character. and I was struggling to feel the posture, and then the tree helped me understand the posture. Then I started thinking about the spirit of the tree and then I started thinking about the spirit of "me," the spirit of human. And I sort of had a bit of an insight into my spirit relative to the tree and the similarities and differences sort of helped me feel what "spirit is" a bit better. I'm not sure if I should try to put more words to it than that. It was cool. It was a good illustration of what we were talking about in the other thread -K-, the theory vs the thing. Or as Krishnamurti would say, the image vs the thing. PS - that's me in the picture .... JK

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll forward it to the boss.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Moderator Action tulku - your posts have been of some concern recently. The images posted in this thread were unacceptable. You have been suspended for 30 days. Please take this time to reconsider what you hope to gain from being a member of this community. On a personal note, I'd urge you to get some professional help as you seem to be in a very dark place. Good luck Mods Out ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I don't know if it would help and you may have already tried this, but allowing the breath to breathe itself without any contribution or interference from "me" can be a useful practice.

Did you get the problem taken care of? I see a new avatar.

Death will take care of itself I think you would benefit more from asking: How to prepare for my life?

PS It occurs to me that the person you were debating has possibly not yet achieved the skill of being able to attend to the body and it's movement as a whole. He or she may be coming from a place where they can only put their Yi in one body part at a time and therefore must link them together sequentially. I remember that it took me a long time (5-6 years) to begin to understand whole body integration. I continue to work on developing that skill currently. Daoist meditation practice (and one internal exercise in particular) helped me in this area immeasurably.

tulku - I think you are too hung up on you. Your salvation will be to figure out that you are not just you. Seek out others and see how you are like them. Good luck, brother

A few more general recommendations for "accumulating energy." First let me clarify that I do not subscribe to the concept that we "accumulate" or "store" energy per se. I believe that energy is free to move within, around, and through us. We ARE the energy we talk of accumulating, as is everything around us. Our perception of being anything other than that is an illusion. That said, I would recommend getting plenty of restful sleep, preferably waking early in the morning and practicing around sunrise. Eat a healthy and well-balance diet. Avoid toxins and avoid overeating. If you use drugs or alcohol, do so in moderation and sparingly. Get regular exercise (in addition to the energy practices). Don't drive when you can walk, don't use an elevator when there are stairs available, and so on... Practice awareness, some might call it mindfulness. Try to become aware of everything going on inside and around you in every moment. Connect completely to your environment, your behavioral patterns, your emotional states and how they fluctuate. Study yourself intently and, in particular, use your relationships with others to learn more about yourself. When conflict arises, see if you can focus more on what it tells you about YOU. Don't worry so much about what it tells you about someone else. And hopefully you will come to understand who and what you really are and how you are related to everyone else - that is the source of infinite energy! Anyway, get back to basics - healthy diet, moderate exercise, plenty of rest, and most of all, awareness. Because the only thing "I" can develop is awareness. The energy is always already there, more than we can imagine. And the Qigong and Taijiquan are great like everyone else has already mentioned. Good luck and welcome back!

After studying Taijiquan for a few years, I asked my Shifu (a practicing Daoist) to begin teaching me the Daoist meditation. After a few months of practice, I asked him if he could recommend a good English translation of the Dao De Jing. His answer was simply, "no." I asked if that was because he never read it in English, and he replied, "No, it's because I've never read it! Now go and practice. Don't waste your time on books!" I've since come to understand that he was simply making a point - there is theory and there is practice and they occupy very different worlds. Great question! I don't know if I can do it justice but I'll try. Taijiquan - there are those who spend enormous energy on a theoretical analysis and understanding of Taijiquan. They study the physics, the energetics, the nature of Qi, the history, the philosophy, and they 'know' absolutely nothing about Taijiquan. They read every book and website, they talk the talk but cannot walk the walk. They can't do the form properly and can be pushed over by a light breeze. Taijiquan is inherently experiential, all the theory is nearly worthless when it comes to the practice. Much better to come at the practice with an open and empty mind. Sure, it's fine to be an expert on the theory and philosophy associated with the practice, but it will not help you in the practice at all - you only think it helps. In fact, this is the case with all Qi-related practices. You cannot possibly understand Qi but you can feel it and work with it. The body can understand it but the brain cannot (we say we can but it's completely gratuitous). It's like food - no matter how much you understand the associated chemistry, it cannot provide you with the experience of eating. A menu will never fill the belly or cause the experience of taste (only a memory). The distinction between practice and theory was really driven home to me by reading the works of Jiddu Krishnamurti. We tend to listen with our biases, our ideas, our conditioning. We either agree or disagree with the speaker. Krishnamurti helped me to see that I needed to listen in a completely different way - with my entire being. I cannot agree or disagree. I cannot accept another's opinion or explanation. I must look deeply into what is being discussed, with all of my resources and see for myself the veracity of the statement. I need to see it in my own life, my behavior, my relationships, my experience - I have to go beyond simply agreeing or disagreeing based on my thoughts and images. Very hard to put into words because it sort of goes beyond words. So another example is love. We can talk about it and analyze it all we want, about meta and compassion, passion and lust, and all of that. And it means nothing until the moment that we actually feel the connection between ourselves and the other, between ourselves and every living thing, and then we know what love is. Perhaps the best example of all is awareness. What is it? We can talk about it and describe it and theorize about it's source and location and all of that is completely meaningless. It is not worth one millisecond of the actual experience of conscious awareness. Anyway, not sure if that helps at all - it doesn't sound very satisfying or convincing to me either! And I'm sure there are some that can debate circles around me. But I know the truth of it inside.

I love the topic and the idea of Ubuntu. I also like the Zen image of a spider web covered with drops of dew. Each dew drop reflects every other, emphasizing the inter-connectedness of all things. I think this is the healing that is needed by humanity. And the only way to make it happen is right here, inside myself and in how I interact with others. No other way.

There is a one word answer to this question - Integrated It's that simple. The person you were debating is mistaken and seems to be trying to force their practice to conform to an idea or theory.