doc benway

I agree with you there

You make an excellent point and ask good questions. One of the main reasons I didn't offer a specific answer is that I'm not enough of an authority on Daoism to point out specific language that is the Daoist equivalent of karma. I will say this much. Karma is one of the more misrepresented and misunderstood concepts in Eastern thought. As you know it simply means action, more or less. It is an acknowledgement that there are consequences associated with all action. It is a reminder that we are not separate and isolated entities but that all is interconnected and interdependent. In my own understanding of Daoism, this concept (if not the very word) is absolutely contained within the Lao-Zhuang-Liezi universe. We are not isolated entities, we act and interact, our choices lead to certain consequences and so on. To me this seems to be implicit. In fact, there is nothing more prominent in Daoist thought and philosophy than Wu Wei and De, both of which are completely concerned with how we act and consequences assocated with our actions. So I personally feel that Daoism addresses karma quite thoroughly, though in a different manner perhaps than Hinduism and Buddhism.

Just a few comments directed toward this discussion about the sanctity of "philosophical Daoism." The problem is that "philosophical Daoism" does not exist. It is an articial construct taken out of a deep and rich context. Daoism has multiple components - religious, philosophical, cultural, spiritual, etc... There is an enormous canon of Daoist philosophical writings that have yet to be translated into English. Even more importantly, an understanding and practice of different aspects of Daoism certainly helps one to put the writings of Laozi, Zhuangzi, and Liezi in perspective. In my own experience, I can say that there are aspects of Daoist philosophical writings that I interpret and understand in an entirely different way as a consequence of my own developing practice of Daoist alchemy. As manitou pointed out, for a philosophy or a spirituality to be credible, applicable, and useful, it must be alive. It must be more focused on questions and less focused on answers. It is not the endgame but rather a tool that we can apply. So if something isn't explicitly stated in the Laozi or Zhuangzi, it does not necessarily mean that it doesn't exist in Daoism. It means that is up to us to apply our knowledge of Daoist principles to see how it helps us understand how to integrate (or not) these other concepts. It is not enough to understand and follow the teachings, we have to become what the sages were. Only then can we see what they saw and be as they were. Then and only then are the teachings alive and vital. Otherwise they are as dead as the their authors. We need to connect to the teahcings with more than our intellect. I think that's what manitou is getting at.

Are you referring to the book by Nisargadatta Maharaj? Excellent book - if you like it you may also want to check out Sri Ramana Maharshi, same basic approach to spirituality.

I read a great novel called The Descent by Jeff Long. It's about the discovery of an ancient civilization living deep in the Earth's interior and how we make contact and the consequences. It was followed up by Deeper but the sequel was not quite as good as the first book.

Not saying that it does, just saying that contributed to the perceptions being what they are. I was around then and I would disagree on this point. I think more of the misconceptions came from Max's presentation and less from the nay-sayers. To be truthful, all I can speak to is my own experience and that was a consequence of his marketing, not what others were saying about him. I really can't speak for anyone else so I'll let it go there. I just feel that Max is responsible for the way his person and his art were presented. If he is as you say he is, I'm sure he understands this and accepts the responsibility with aplomb. Thanks for the follow up, L7S.

I'm sorry to hear that witch. I think many of us are. -K- raised a good point recently in another thread that such damage and suffering is often what leads us to question and investigate ourselves more deeply, and consequently leads to emancipation. If one were to lead a happy, comfortable, care free life, why investigate or change?

I mostly avoid comment on anything related to Max and Kunlun for a variety of reasons, but I will say this: the perception of Max as you describe as "some ultra super human being with some demonic powers or whatever" was a direct consequence of his marketing program. His early website, his video clips, posted stories of his history and childhood, all designed specifically to create exactly this "flawed perception." He may not have emphasized these things in personal meetings or seminars but it was the only information about him that he made available through his website to the general public. It was a misunderstanding created by Max himself more than any consequence of "fear, disbelief, fascination, and jealousy." I've never met him and I take you all at your word that he is a down to earth, regular guy with something to offer that many people find valuable. But he is also responsible for the hype and misconceptions that he created. At least, that's my read.

In the beginning of the trailer it looks like they're practicing the Shiba Luohan Qigong. Owledge and Ish make some good points but it still looks like a good flick. Thanks for posting that trailer.

I'm having a hard time understanding what you're looking for, Everything, because the word Truth can have so many different meanings and implications. You must first clarify in what capacity you are using it. I wonder if all of the discussion relates to the same definition and usage of the word, Truth. When it comes to questions and answers, I subscribe to the idea that the question is what is important. The question is alive, it stimulates investigation, whereas the answer is dead. The answer is someone else's conclusion generally. Once we have an answer, we replace the question with a belief or an image and move on. All opportunity for further exploration of that particular question are abandoned. And all answers are relative. So it's OK to just stay with the question and not be too concerned with an answer. It feels insecure and unsteady but security is an illusion. The greatest security is to accept that it is an illusion.

I practiced consistently for about 3 months. I did the entire set. I feel that it helped loosen the low back and hips. It helped show me how tight those area were and so I've added some additional stretching and have made some real progress in that area. From a psycho-emotional perspective, it's extremely hard to tell whether or not there is a meaningful change as that is an area I've been working on regularly with a number of approaches that change from time to time. My usual routine has continued before and after (Taijiquan, some Qigong, Xingyi, Bagua, and regular meditation). I think I let this go mainly because my time's extremely limited and the other practices just take higher priority for me.

I woke up yesterday and had "nothing to do" so I celebrated. I get my tea from my Shifu who buys a few varieties of high mountain tea each Spring. The early Spring harvest is usually the best of the year. The tea I'm drinking lately is mostly this high mountain Wulong from Taiwan. Today, my training partner came over so I used the bigger teapot. This is my favorite - it's got my astrological sign on the top - a rat!

Nice post Michael. I do think sometimes about how good things currently are. Not just from the technology perspective but our very existence. But there is always a balance of good and bad We like to compare then to now but it's always now. So it's interesting to look at just that process of judging good and bad and getting invested and stuck to it like it has some tangible component. But you can never quite put your finger on that because it doesn't exist. But that's what we are - the one who is judging. And if we can let that go, what are we? And I'm rambling...

Very insightful - I most certainly was recovering (or not) from a terrible and chronic "accident" that I'm certain contributed to the break. And the recovery continues (or doesn't)... that's the joke

There are differing opinions. Here's mine. In my teacher's system, Qi Gong is used to refer to work that is done associating body movement with breathing. The internal work using the Yi is generally limited to the coordination and control of the breath and movement and the associated perceptions (which are often lumped together as "energy"). It can be hard or soft, the hard is preferred by the Wai Jia and the soft preferred by the Nei Jia. The work being done here relates mostly to development and regulation of the energetic body and organ systems. Nei Gong is used to refer to the work of refining, clarifying, and developing the Yi, the way I look at it. Often, this is done sitting, standing, or lying down. The difference here is that body movement is not the focus, nor is any particularly breathing. Breathing takes care of itself (Xian Tian). Movement generally is more spontaneous as well. The emphasis here is on developing the Yi and making use of it to plumb the depths of oneself. And there's lots of potential overlap and give and take. There is Nei Gong that is wonderful for strengthening or or working on flexibility and Qi Gong that is great for working on the Yi. So take any classification system with a grain of salt. Also, there has been varying usage of the terms Qi and Nei Gong historically. I tend to focus more on understanding the practices functionally. Sometimes names are misleading.

You can only find the truth in inside. The search for Qi is the refinement of perception and awareness. No question about it. Me too What a post! _/\_ Just want to chime in on the high points. 1. So important to be mindful of this. And pointing this out makes us remember to bring the training of the Yi out of our meditative ritual and into our life. 2. How to make this occur? I'm pretty sure I know exactly what break you mean and I have no idea how it happened in me... How to help others??? 3. Masterful eloguence! 4. My only semantic disagreement - this is exactly meditation and energy practice, most just don't acknowledge or achieve that level of commitment. Hence the need for such enormous energy! If we are living Wu Wei then our entire life is the meditation.

Beautiful photo Scott! Congratulations - that right there is a life changer. Enjoy!

Thanks for the reply, Franklin

What you keep doing is called in English, going off half cocked. I am not referring to 掤(peng) I am referring to 鵬(peng) You may research the names of Tai Ji Jian postures and Ba Gua Zhang postures if you aren't familiar with the use of 鵬(peng) in the Nei Jia. One common posture in jian practice is 大 鵬 展 翅. There are otheres. You have this annoying habit of always assuming the other guy is wrong. Why not ask, rather than correct (incorrectly)? I actually saw your incorrect correction of XieJia's post before noticing your incorrect correction of mine!

Peng 鵬 is encountered periodically in martial arts form names. It generally refers to expansive postures with bold and rising energy - wings spread. Common in jian forms especially.

Hi Franklin, Thanks for sharing that clip. I'm curious as to why you choose to call this a Nei Gong set rather than Qi Gong. Is there specific internal work associated with the body movement and breathing? If so, can you describe that a bit? Best regards, Steve

I like the cultivation allegory. I also think there is another message here and that is one of the absolute and the relative. There is a lot of discussion of the ridiculously large and a comparison to the very small and nearly trivial. There are questions of relative worth, which I think are rhetorical questions. This leads us to think about the very great and the very small, it encourages us to question our tendency to make judgements and to favor the great over the small. It also distinguishes the high from the low and challenges us to make value judgements regarding the Yin and Yang manifestations of Dao. It makes us think about how small and insignificant we are but, at the same time, the importance and value of all life, irrespective of our own human preferences and biases. At each level of magnitude of existence there is still life, seen and seeing with a different perspective. And often, that perspective and perhaps even the recognition of life and intelligence can be incomprehensible to other perspectives. I really like this: "Therefore, it is said that the ultimate man has no self, the spiritual person has no accomplishment, and the sage has no name." The ultimate man has no self - a direct experience of the One-ness of Dao, shows us that the experience of self transcends the trivial, superficial illusion of individual human self-ness. The spiritual person has no accomplishment - for who is there to claim success? And that success is nothing more than being what we all are. The sage has no name - you cannot isolate and limit the sage for the sage is simply what Dao is doing here and now and is always in flux and will soon be gone. So how to put a name on it? Anyway, just some stream of consciousness on my lunch break. Nice to be looking at the Zhuang Zi.

That's a good link and worth the time to read it. Thanks

I just finished the commentary on the little book. The next section is on Karma Yoga. I really like the book. The author speaks to me very directly. You do need to look past some minor weaknesses like some of the evolutionary and militaristic language. It sounds a bit Bhagavad Gita what with the battle and warrior references. But it speaks directly to my personal experience of the relative and absolute and how to take that as a foundation and build - well I hope that's where it goes, I'm only about 1/3 done. I was busy this past week. Definitely a worthwhile read.