doc benway

I agree with you. To call it an illusion is holding onto a view, an image, a definition of what life is. It implies that I think I know something about the nature of being. That is false. Best to just smile. Hehehe!

I agree with you. I wonder if it is also possible to be both - can we look at the world as fresh and interesting and yet bring our wisdom, experience, and practicality to the situation whenever necessary? I don't think it's either/or. I think it is finding the balance of both and being skillful in this. Still - your experiences with "love" and the way I'm using that word are different so discussions regarding relationship and love are tricky.

Dogma is the established doctrine of a religion. Religionists take their dogma very seriously, I assure you. Tibetan Buddhists are very dogmatic when it comes to the bardo states and all such constructs surrounding death and transitions. All of this is laid out in great detail. You may say this is not dogma or dogmatic but I think that would be disingenuous. Then again, the way our minds work is such that what I believe is truth, what you believe is dogma. Why do we take life and death so seriously? I think there should be equal measures of seriousness and levity. Because in the end, it is all an illusion anyway, isn't it?

There is a difference between being childlike and childish. Childlike is to maintain the wonder and curiosity of the young. It does not mean to give up the wisdom and experience of maturity. Being childish is more along the lines of immaturity and irresponsibility. One of the most fundamental characteristics of the Daoist sage is to be childlike, as such she is closer to the Dao. It is our conditioning and images that takes us away from our nature.

Or non-localized attention although that is very challenging and I can only manage it for very short bursts.

Which is that?

You live with and without the boundary. With and without the identity. You know the identity is an illusion and yet it is what you are given in this life to experience yourself with so you nurture and relish it. There is no understanding of egoless-ness. It is an experience. It does not exclude the experience of the ego. They are yin and yang to one another. It does help to become child-like. Look at everything as if you've never seen it before. Revel in the beauty of nature, including humanity. Not holding on to any idea or any thought is the definition of faith, it is the furthest thing from faithless. Having belief is clinging to an explanation for something that cannot be explained. Having faith is letting go of all images and beliefs and ideas, and having complete confidence that whatever remains is truth. Be patient, this sort of thing takes years to digest and embody. It is not just about intellectual or analytical understanding. It is much slower than that although when it happens, it is instantaneous.

Another good book about the dying (and living) process is Mind Beyond Death by Dzogchen Ponlop. Buddhists get way too dogmatic regarding death and what comes after for my tastes but it's still a worthwhile book.

How about if we pause here and discuss what you've written so far. This alone could be discussed for hours and practiced for years. What does Tai Ji mean as it applies to martial arts? It means balance. Everything is always in balance. I must physically and mentally maintain my balance. I must take the balance from my opponent, physically and mentally. Tai Ji Quan uses soft when soft is needed, and hard when hard is needed. There is a misunderstanding that Tai Ji Quan is soft. It is not soft. It is in balance. It can yield to a more powerful force. By yielding, the more powerful force is absorbed by void since void absorbs and gives rise to all things. That is how soft overcomes hard. But you cannot generally win a fight being only soft, you might if you get very lucky. Sooner or later you need to counter attack. Once the opponent's attack is neutralized, there must be counter attack to end the conflict. Soft and hard must balance. Fast and slow find balance. There is a Tai Ji Quan saying that goes: 后發先至 Hou Fa Xian Zhi Launch later but arrive before It's like a gunfighter in the old west. The fastest doesn't necessarily triumph. It is the one who knows his speed, how to apply it, how to take advantage of opportunity and target and so on. So slow can defeat fast, like the tortoise and the hare. But slow isn't sluggish. It is prepared, it is careful, it is meticulous and mindful. It finds the weaknesses and exploits them. Also, stillness and movement are in balance. There is a saying that goes: 以 靜制動 Yi Jin Zhi Dong meaning something like using stillness to control movement. There is a feeling of movement, continuous spiraling within the body that is always there even in the absence of movement. It's the potential for movement. It is the circulation of the Qi. There is another saying 氣宜鼓盪 QI Yi Gu Dang which means the Qi should be excited. This movement in stillness is the excitement and awareness of the Qi. And the same saying goes on to say 神宜內斂 Shen Yi Nei Lian, the spirit is gathered within. Even though the Qi is excited and active, the spirit is tranquil, this is the stillness in motion. There are no wasted movements, there is tranquility, poise, awareness, and control even during the most violent motion. And there is much more to say about Tai Ji as it relates to martial arts but that's a start. Now let's touch on force and strength: Li is physical strength. When I lift, push, or pull something using power generated by my muscles, that is Li. It is the force that we generally use in our daily activities. It can be very powerful if I am strong or fast. And yet it is limited to the power of the muscles without the additional skill developed through specific Tai Ji Quan methods. Tai Ji Quan teaches us that more force can be generated by developing a number of skills. These skills include proper posture, proper breathing, proper body movement, proper footwork, whole body coordination, sensitivity, listening, timing, and breath (not an exhaustive list but a start). When all that is put together we can develop what my teacher calls coordination strength. This is part of the magic. This is what people try to replicate with silly parlor tricks. This is one of the things people refer to when they speak of the superhuman feats of Tai Ji Quan. When someone is skilled at this, it can be devastating. Jin 勁 simply means energy or force. There can be many different kinds, such as spiraling, pushing revolving, wave, hidden, etc... and hopefully we'll get into that eventually. Jin can be strong or weak. It is related to Li but not limited to Li. It can go beyond Li but only after proper instruction and training as described above. So Jin is simply energy. There are many types of energies developed by moving the body in different ways and manipulating the opponent in different ways. Let's start with Fa Jin 發勁 issuing force or explosive force, but first we need to think about long force and short force. Long force 長勁 or chang jin is generated over a distance of several inches or more. So when I wind up and punch, that's long force. It's a little slower and more obvious but can be quite powerful. Short force, duan jin 短勁 is generated over a short distance, less than about 4 inches. This is how to create Fa Jin. Fa just means to emit or to issue but the implication is explosive because it is short, sharp, and fast. It is generated by integrating the entire body - all of the limbs, the torso, the Yi (intent), breath, and the most critical of all - timing. When this all comes together, a very damaging, short, explosive force can be generated depending on the skill of the practitioner. The main differences between Fa Jin and Li can be seen through a simple analogy I like to use. Imagine there is a very heavy piece of furniture - over a hundred pounds or more, and in one drawer is a wine glass. If I use Li and hit that piece of furniture hard, I may dent or crack the surface or crack my hand, and the wine glass is undisturbed. If i put both hands on the furniture and use my entire body in a coordinated way to push it very violently using a short, sharp, shove - the surface will be undisturbed but the energy will penetrate the furniture and the wine glass will topple inside and shatter. That's one example of what Fa Jin is like. The force does not damage the surface so much but it penetrates and is very effective. It can be used outward (pushing, hitting, striking) and inward (plucking, roll back, Qin Na). This outward and inward aspect to force is yet another example of Tai Ji theory expressed through Tai Ji Quan. So a question for anyone who wants to play, why use Fa Jin? If I'm skilled using Li and I can develop a lot of speed and strength, I can be VERY effective at kicking, blocking, punching, throwing, and so on. I can do a lot of damage to my opponent with nothing but Li. And using Li power, I can stay farther from my opponent and not put myself at risk. I can stay back, out of range, and periodically punch and kick. This is how most styles teach to fight. Why is short force necessary and why is it the primary offensive tactic in Tai Ji Quan? (Now I'm acting like the teacher , plus forgive me! )

Beautifully said.

Very nicely stated

Yeah, I like that, for me, "I" seems to be a lot like an echo which then becomes a memory which then takes credit as the doer.

Again I must disagree. Whether one "goes it alone" or "goes it" in terms of a lineage, there is already separation. This all presupposes one who goes and somewhere to go. One who desires to become, one who clings to a state other than what is already always there. One who clings to a way to get there. And all the baggage of your lineage and methods and the desired state is created by thought. It is no good to you where "you" are "going". All of that must be abandoned because all of that is what makes you a Buddhist rather than Buddha. I recognize that you will never accept this as we've been through this before. And there's no need for me to try to convince you of anything. You have your chosen path and I wish you well in your travels.

Great post, although I think that you are, in fact, it. You are the sum total of what "it" is doing right where "you" exist. And like you said, "it" is there but also obscured by how our antenna is tuned. "It" is screened out. "It" experiences the world through those patterns and habits you describe. And as you let that go,little by little, "it" is more fully expressed and can do no wrong. @Everything - I don't think this is a bad translation at all. However, like I posted in the topic on Tai Ji Quan and Yin-Yang, this is an experiential thing that can not be learned or expressed in words. When you actually feel that you are the whole thing, all of it, you will understand the chapter. I don't mean that at all in an arrogant or demeaning way although I know it can come across that way. I'm sorry if it does. The Dao De Jing is like this. You need to sit with it, soak it in, don't believe or dis-believe it. Just let it be there, come back to it from time to time and chew on it. Recognize that there is some level of truth in it, otherwise it would not have stood the test of time like it has. Allow that it might take time to speak to you and be patient. That's how I approach this stuff anyway. The classics can be dense and challenging, and they often speak in archaic terms. I've found that other, more contemporary perspectives have helped me to understand the classics (Lao Zi, Zhuang Zi, Lieh Zi, Buddhist sutras, Christian scripture). These other perspectives have come from people like Jiddu Krishnamurti, Anthony Demello, Ramana Maharshi, Osho, and Alan Watts. Of these, Anthony Demello has helped me the most to see the perspective that is being alluded to in this chapter. Good luck, don't get frustrated, and don't give up. Just let it go for a while. There are plenty of other things to ponder if this one's hanging you up right now. Just my $.02.

Here I have to disagree. I think only I can know how and when to drop it. No one can show me that. They can tell me to drop it until they are blue in the face, only I can feel when it can be done and how. The master is human and his journey is uniquely his, my journey is uniquely mine. He can point the way, he can be there to show me that it can be done and that one can continue to live in this world after emerging from the other side. But there comes a time when the master must be left behind and I have to walk alone. And there is no path to follow but that I create for myself. And I think that point is related to this question of letting go of spiritual desire.

SImilarly, Hu Xuezhi translates it thus: The pursuit of learning is to increase knowledge day after day. The pursuit of Dao is to decrease knowledge day after day. Persist in reducing the False Heart little by little, Till all the acquired is dropped. When taking non-acquired action, nothing is left undone. The entire world is gained by taking non-acquired action, To be qualified for achieving all by taking any acquired action is not enough. I love the first two lines - I might have used these for my initial argument in the thread about Tai Ji Quan and Yin-Yang. Reducing the False Heart is getting rid of choices, judgements, desires. Non-acquired action is his attempt to translate Wu Wei into a concise English concept. I like Wu Wei better as Chi Dragon leaves it.

I would turn the phrase around - One only truly is one, when one lets go of that desire... The practice can never be successful as long as there is a desire to become something other than what one already is... That is the most insidious desire and often the most difficult to let go of. This is why desire for spiritual attainment is the most dangerous, it is the most subtle but most deeply desired. There comes a point where it needs to be let go, a point where it is the obstacle, no longer the impetus. Or not, I could be completely and utterly mistaken. How would I know?

That was very nice of you to say. I certainly forgive you, FWIW, but I think somehow we need to let go the desire to be Buddha to be Buddha. Good luck to you

I'd be happy to hear your thoughts and discuss theory. I just wanted to put a discussion of Tai Ji theory in perspective relative to having skill in Tai Ji Quan. It would be nice if we can try and limit our theoretical discussion to descriptions of what we experience directly in our practice. Does anyone think that would be valuable? Or even possible?

I agree with everything that you say. I choose how to react to your attempt to invalidate my belief. However, recognize that it is you, who are invalidating the other's belief, that is clinging to your own. And it is you, expecting the other to live their life as YOU see fit. Unless of course they that come to you asking for your view, which we all do here by virtue of our presence. Dramatic aside: I have a friend who is a devout and fundamentalist Christian. One night after practice he cornered me into a religious discussion which turned to debate and argument. At one point, I asked him if a young child, who lived in an area where there was no knowledge of his brand of Christianity died without being saved and led the most pure life imaginable, what would happen to that child's soul - "they would burn" or some such nonsense, "because don't you understand that God could have saved her if He wanted to.." I was incensed and let him know what I thought of his view of reality. Weeks later he told me, nearly in tears, that these beliefs were all he had and he needed them. I had shaken him and he relied on the conviction of his beliefs to hold his shit together. I learned he had a harsh background and I won't go into it any further. I recognized that, no matter what my view of things are, it is not my position to impose them on others (I frequently screw up and violate this but I try). I recognize that great harm comes from these insane views but invalidating another's belief comes with a great responsibility, and who of us are enough of an authority to take that on? In trivial matters I am - for example, I just put on a very authoritarian posture in a recent thread, but that was something I know about. To do that regarding the ineffable nature of reality? Not me....

1. Only if by "to know the BASIC theory behind it..." means to be skilled in martial Tai Ji Quan applications and training methods from a physical, not intellectual perspective. The intellectual "understanding" is just an image, a construct of thought, a memory. 2. Exactly - 太 極 means the theory but 拳 changes the meaning of the word to something like : The art and training system of combat based in Yin-Yang principle. But that's a clumsy way of saying it so Tai Ji Boxing is just as good as anything because traditionally the word "boxing" has been used in English Chinese translations of traditional Chinese martial art - eg The Boxer Rebellion 3. I disagree but it's just semantics, practical skill always comes with "knowing the theory" but the knowing is a side effect. I'm just getting a bit metaphysical on you! 4.&5. Agreed, and it never stops becoming more clear if you practice! 6. Thanks for clearing that up, sorry I misunderstood, I guess I was being a bit defensive rather than yielding _/\_ - Thanks for the compliment but until we meet, you really won't know for sure! PS I recently had the idea that it would be cool to have a TTB Tai ji get together some time for folks that like Tai Ji Quan. it could be a blast!