doc benway

My approach - For Qigong, health, longetivity practices - abdominal breathing: expand abdomen on inhale, contract (passively) on exhale For martial Taiji training - reverse abdominal breathing: focus more on chest on inhale (abdomen contracts passively) and guide Qi to dan tian (abdomen expands passively) on exhale

Have a nice visit!

Thanks!

SereneBlue - Sorry to hear of your struggle and frustration. I share it. I'm not sure there are any questions in spiritual matters that have meaningful answers. The question is what is really important. That is what drives our curiosity and ignites our passion. It takes us places we wouldn't otherwise go. And along the way we learn wonderful things. We face our fears and failures and frustrations. And there is nothing more important to question than ourselves. Answers don't really help in this arena, they're dead. They stop the process. If you think you know the answer, why bother to continue to search? Why continue to study and debate? And if you really think you have the answer - you're wrong! Reality is beyond words and ideas and concepts (even E&DO ). It can be experience but never explained. But there are so many things to see and learn along the way. So much opportunity for growth. I think that if we are diligent and sincere and really look deeply into ourselves, we are eventually rewarded. It's worth the candle. And PS, Bodyoflight was suspended for violating the no-insult policy

I agree with you completely, and I also think that it is within our grasp to experience the unexplainable, just not to capture it in words or concepts. After all, we are it. I'll have to check out Matt's Zohar - thanks

Wonderful - I do appreciate the passion and honesty of your reply. It takes a fair amount of courage to open up like that. I think the points I quote above are so critical to understand. When we discuss and debate we are simply manipulating labels and conditioned perspectives, not reality. In the end, we must abandon the method and the conditioning to encounter whatever it is that is beyond our concepts. Like the saying goes, once I've crossed the river, I no longer need to carry the canoe on my shoulders to explore what's on the other side. Agreed - it would be a beautiful thing to live to see real awakening on a large scale. But it's OK, it's a blessing to have an opportunity to try and live an awake life to whatever degree we can Namaste

Thanks Jack

Thank you Will do (I wish there was a popcorn eating smiley)

I doubt that any Buddhists from Cambodian, Tibet, India, Myanmar, Thailand, China, or Japan would be offended to hear that what they practice is religion. Although I am basing this on very few individuals I know personally and what I've seen in books and other media so I could be mistaken. I think it's reasonably apparent that Buddhism serves the purpose in the lives of Buddhists that Christianity serves for Christians, Islam for Muslims, and Judaism for Jews, Daoism for Daoists, etc... To say otherwise is a bit disingenuous. Buddhism informs the moral and ethical lives of Buddhists, provides cultural identity, rituals, traditions, and history, and addresses spiritual issues related to the nature of human existence. What more does it need to do to fit the bill? Perhaps some folks don't like the negative connotations associated with the R word. Also, as I alluded to above, many folks who practice Buddhism in the West really don't relate to many of the cultural aspects and I think that's an important part of religion. Ultimately, Buddhism is what it is in all of its myriad manifestations. Whether we say it can be associated with the letters "r-e-l-i-g-i-o-n" or not isn't terribly important. Sometimes we get a little hung up on labels and definitions, I think. Myself included.

No - I've never really meditated on the elements, other than what I described above. Although, I've practiced Xingyiquan for several years and have worked extensively on the five element fists - standing meditations as well as moving practices. So I guess that qualifies to some degree. I pretty much have one system I work with but on occasion dabble with other things just for a change of pace. If you want to elaborate, I'm always interested in new ideas. Thanks

If you're referring to the "inner work" I practice, it's not analytical in any way - it's totally about "feeling" ...sort of...

Dear Taomeow, I wonder if you'd be so kind as to continue sharing your knowledge of shen with us. Lately, I've been exploring it quite a bit but solely from an empiric perspective. I'd love to hear more about the lesser shens and their relationship to the greater shen from your point of view, and maybe ask some questions. Thanks

I get it - that's perfect. When I practice meditation, I do exactly what you are describing for a bit before starting the nei-yeh exercises. When I first started, I used to keep the eyes closed. Sight is very distracting during some of the exercises. Later, however, I began to experiment with leaving the eyes open, though relaxed, and allowing the visual input to be there at the same time as the inner work. I'll definitely try the sky gazing - I've done similar work with candle, trees, ocean, wildlife... Thanks

Juju, I will respectfully disagree with the position that Buddhism is not a religion. I think that if you ask most Buddhists throughout Asia, they would consider Buddhism more a religion than a philosophy. In the West, we are biased by our conditioning to associate religion with the Abrahamic religions' monarchical and paternalistic portrayals of God. Furthermore, many in the West have little frame of reference for understanding the cultural aspects of Buddhism and, therefore, have tended to utilize its philosophy and discard cultural aspects. Interestingly, some would say that Buddhism, to a large extent, was a vehicle to remove much of the cultural baggage from Hinduism to allow it to be more approachable for exportation, notwithstanding the profound metaphysical differences. Buddhism views spirituality in a different manner from Western religious traditions (as does Daoism for that matter) but that does not mean that it is not a religion. I'm not a huge fan of the Wikipedia, but I do think this paragraph from it's definition of religion is a reasonable one and supports my position. "Religion is a cultural system that establishes symbols that relate humanity to spirituality and moral values.[Clifford Geertz - Religion as a Cultural System 1973] Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life or to explain the origin of life or the universe. They tend to derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle from their ideas about the cosmos and human nature."

Sorry to bum you out! You're way back on memory lane! Here's one of my all time favorites from Inti Illimani - it's also a little sad but in more of a wabi sabi sort of way. The lyrics go something like: Take pity on my complaining Take pity on my complaining If you have ever loved me And show me how to be happy Because unhappy, was I born Here's another beautiful song performed by Inti Illimani The lyrics are in Quechua, it's a traditional song from a town in Chile called Cariquima

Me too...

Are you doing anything other than what you describe with your awareness/intent?

I'd very much like to hear about your sky gazing practice. I may be heading out to Sedona soon for a short time...

Amen - though the proper frame of mind is needed to reap the benefits. That can be hard to come by. Perhaps that's something you gained from some of your teachers? Whether by positive or negative example...

Very nice post Seth. I have a few questions/remarks. "4. The 'supreme' state or 'God' state, has an [seemingly] Infinite organising 'Intelligence' but is still part and parcel of all other states." What is the organizing intelligence? It sounds very close to me to the concept of Atman. I believe what you're referring to is specifically what Buddha was decrying. Not because he intended to state emphatically that it was not reality, but that it was a concept that one could cling to. I'm not disagreeing with you in any way (your words are pretty close to my personal experience), just teasing out detail. "8. We are on the edge of a 'Golden Age' of Philosophy. For the first time ever, all systems of thought are available to us, as well as neurobiology, sociology, science, psychology... What emerges will surpass all previous revelations and understandings of the universe. And It will surpass all previous mystical methodology's, including the out dated Guru Model. " Your ideas overall resonate with me a great deal. I do challenge this statement, however. I think that this feeling occurs in many ages. My real concern is this. Where is evidence of psychological maturity in the world? Of spiritual growth? Humanity has faced the exact same problems since time immemorial - hunger, violence, racism, greed, war. Show me any evidence that this is changing. All I see is more polarization, more tribalism, more conflict. I do believe that this maturity can occur and I believe that it can only occur at the individual level. Governments, religions, and their leaders can do nothing. They've done nothing in 40,000 years or so. It can only happen for each of us as individuals when we are ready. So then, how to take this into the large scale and make meaningful change such as you allude to? 9. To bring about this 'Golden Age' will require the greatest Philosophical Courage and honesty, and Epic debates between people from multiple fields of research. So much Philosophical and religious dross will have to be sheared away. I personally believe Open Dialogue will be the golden heart of the new movement. I share your optimism in the value of dialogue. One of the masters of this was Jiddu Krishnamurti. His dialogues with many masters, including David Bohm, are fascinating. The Dalai Lama has continued this by his openness to interacting with the scientific world, physicists in particular. But where has it gotten us? Unfortunately, I don't see much movement at the macro level. Nevertheless, I do see and feel a great deal of movement at the individual level (me) and that is all I can ask.

I recently watched a video by Alan Moore on magic via a TaoBums link. It led me to read his novel, Voice of the Fire. Here is a brief excerpt I like from the final chapter which puts me in mind of some discussion in another thread about history. Don't know if this will stimulate much thought or discussion but it certainly made me think. "History, unendingly revised and reinterpreted, is seen upon examination as merely a different class of fiction; becomes hazardous if viewed as having any innate truth beyond this. Still, it is a fiction that we must inhabit. Lacking any territory that is not subjective, we can only live upon the map. All that remains in question is whose map we choose, whether we live within the world's insistent texts or else replace them with a stronger language of our own."

It's an interesting dynamic. The irony is that these long arguments about Buddhism seem to indicate an attachment to our stances on a discipline that is all about letting them go. Are we digging in our heels because it is important to us to be correct? Are we trying to convince the other person of our view? Are we trying to convince ourselves? I wonder how much we look at our own behavior in these debates and try to learn from it.

Poetry is certainly in the mind of the reader - I'd agree that you should try and look at excerpts from multiple translations then buy the one that sings to you.

Good point and a corollary is that some of it is "what hasn't worked thus far." I think a lot of the trouble comes from behvioral and thoughts patterns that are unhealthy or unproductive and just rote conditioning. The process of waking up and letting go helps us to see what works and what doesn't and fine tune the system. And it's an ongoing process, I think.

Good luck to you noahfor!