doc benway

Not true - evolution as a scientific theory is so consistent with observable data and so strong in predictive value, that the only folks calling its overall validity into question are those who believe in an alternative assertion (not a scientific theory mind you). As a rule, all of these folks are attempting to gain support for Creat-Intelligent Design-ism due to their fervent desire that the book of Genesis represents reality rather than allegory. That's the bottom line. Yawn...

Why do we think that the calcification is unnatural or harmful? Perhaps the crystals are transducers or of value in some way. Have you spent any time focusing on this area in meditation?

I find some solace, or at least acceptance, when I put these horrors in the perspective of the Dao and Daoist principles. All things in nature are in balance. With great beauty comes great ugliness - they define each other, neither can exist without the other. It is not an explanation, for what makes us think that there is or should be an explanation? Explanations are nothing more than a rationalization that satisfies human thought. Where do we get the idea that the universe and all of its manifestations exist in such a way that satisfies our desire for explanation? Zhuangzi's parable about the empty boat addresses this. When nature takes the lives of thousands (whether they be people or fish) we do not question. When man's hand is involved, there is suddenly an offense. One can look at these horrific occurrences as being the hand of nature in action - man is only the tool. I'm not trying to excuse - just endure... If a man is crossing a river and an empty boat collides with his skiff, even though he is a bad-tempered man he will not become very angry. But if he sees a man in the boat, he will shout at him to steer clear. If the shout is not heard he will shout again, and yet again, and begin cursing. And all because there is somebody in the boat. Yet, if the boat were empty, he would not be shouting, and not angry. If you can empty your own boat crossing the river of the world, No one will oppose you. No one will seek to harm you.... Such is the perfect man: His boat is empty.

I think we would have to begin by defining our terms - what is a spiritual pratitioner? what is it to 'get' this? what do I mean by difficult? It may sound presumptuous, even arrogant, but I don't think very many people on this forum are on a serious spiritual search... or at least that is the way it seems from much of the discussion I read. Of course, each of us gets to choose and define what that means for ourselves and I am simply commenting from my own biases.

I think it is an important and difficult experience to understand in your heart and bones (not just intellectually) the truth of what Otis is pointing out. Several years ago I read two books in relatively short succession - the effect was devastating. This is what started me on a focused path of spiritual inquiry. We Wish to Inform You that Tomorrow We Will be Killed With Our Families - Phillip Gourevitch Love Thy Neighbor - Peter Maass The first was about the Rwandan genocide and the second about the Bosnian genocide. Powerful books. In part, because they occurred in my lifetime and as I watched - helplessly. Genocide has been with us for a long time and shows no sign of abating. Humanity has progressed technologically but not psychologically or emotionally. We are more dangerous than ever before as a consequence. We can try and ease the pain of this knowledge with humor or denial but it takes courage to face the ugly truth as Otis is presenting it and it is an important part of our spiritual, emotional, and psychological maturity to come to terms with it directly. Failure to do so guarantees future similar episodes. Even with extreme vigilance, it is likely to happen again and again.

I agree - that was a good book.

I will never tire of your posts Hagar. You really bring a wonderful perspective to our forum. How to measure progress in something that, by it's very nature, is to be without a goal? When sitting becomes an end and not a means, when daily life becomes the meditation, perhaps that is a measure of "progress"? Certainly there are methods that are constructed of exercises where some measure of progress or some particular insight or experience is needed before graduating to subsequent steps. One can argue - is this meditation?

Wonderful stuff! Reminiscent of Alejandro Jodorowsky and his use of film, comics, and the Tarot.

Ever since I've been a member, I've been surprised at the relatively few number of members who seem genuinely compassionate and loving. There are a few and they generally drift away. Many people are looking for something for themselves and don't seem too concerned with much else. This is not a new phenomenon. If those of us with room in our heart for love and compassion are patient and continue to participate, it may change. And if it doesn't, we can come and go as we please.

I injured my back when helping a neighbor to pull multiple, large tree stumps out of his yard in 1990. There was a short period of terrible, acute back and leg pain. That subsided and then I was left with fluctuating levels of low grade, chronic pain. It seemed to get considerably worse over a period of several years. A few years ago, a close friend and training partner suggested that I investigate the work of John Sarno - a physiatrist out of New York. I listened to a set of his CD's. His insights and ideas about the root causes of many forms of chronic pain (especially, but not limited to back pain) made a lot of sense to me. After a few weeks of looking deeply into myself from the perspective he presents, my pain improved considerably - by perhaps 80%. Not only that, my anxiety and suffering associated with the pain improved to an even greater extent. I was able to discover some deeply repressed anger, frustration, and related emotions. For better or worse (better, I think), I then had to begin to address these repressed issues and I continue to work on myself to do this day. Sarno's basic premise in a nutshell is this: the majority of chronic pain is the expression of repressed rage. Humans living in high tech society experience enormous anger, frustration, and rage. These emotions are socially unacceptable and undesirable, and are therefore repressed. Rather than facing the content that is so emotionally and psychologically infuriating and debilitating, our brains distract our attention by creating or magnifying physical symptoms which are infinitely easier to understand and express and are more socially and culturally approachable in terms of communication and receiving care. This can be very easily mediated by the autonomic nervous system through shunting of blood flow and so forth, thus creating all kinds of physical symptoms - pain, numbness, tingling, dizziness, weakness, and so on. One problem is that whatever treatment they are provided with simply reinforces the belief that they are ill, impaired, disabled, and so on. It doesn't matter whether that treatment is medicine, surgery, acupuncture, massage, qigong, etc... These folks need to understand that their body is reasonably healthy and normal and it is their emotional, psychological, and spiritually being that needs attention. Mind you, this is just a theory based in a single paradigm, but based on my personal experience and on my professional experience as a physician, I am completely convinced that it is very close to some part of the reality. A related approach is to look at the consequences of pain, injury, or illness to a person. People are conditioned to come to a health care practitioner or other care giving persons for help with a physical symptom - ie pain. They tend to repress, deny, or ignore the profound effects the issue is having on them economically, emotionally, psychologically, sexually, socially, and so on. If they are able to gain insight into all of the other aspects of their life that are affected and how they are reacting to this emotionally, spiritually, and psychologically, they can achieve much more meaningful breakthroughs than if they simply have the physical problem treated. My personal experience with acupuncture helped show me the truth of this from the receiving end. I've come to the point where I will often point some of these things out to my patients when they seem to be playing a significant role in what's going on. Although, I'm careful to get into it only with people that seem to be open to such considerations. Many people just get angrier when I tread into such territory then it becomes virtually impossible to help them. Those that are open enough or suffering enough to hear what I am saying invariably break down into tears which instantly confirms that I'm on the right track. This is the first step to meaningful healing for these folks. If I address only their physical problem and the other stuff persists, their problem will undoubtedly surface again, whether in a related or unrelated form. I'm sure there are more complex and subtle processes at work and these observations can be looked at from a number of different paradigms, but this much is certain - pain is an indicator, not a disease. It should be looked at carefully, with an open mind - a beginner's mind. There are times when it can be a great teacher. There are times when it can be a life saver. It can be horrible and crippling. There are times when it is appropriately masked with drugs (acute trauma or illness, terminal illness). One thing that I cannot tolerate - that is when it is exploited for profit, amusement, or other inappropriate reasons. Sadly, that occurs not only in Western health care, but Eastern and alternative health care fields as well, not to mention the spiritual arena.

No question that mainland China is rife with government sponsored "Taoist" masters and Wudang experts that are trying to revitalize the beautiful arts that were decimated by the cultural revolution. Most of these are corrupted versions, heavily influenced by the new Wu Shu and watered down methods. Some remnants of the real masters no doubt have survived but are unlikely to be terribly accessible without serious direct referrals and personal connections. Taiwan was a haven for many who fled the purging but I would bet you will still need some well connected help to gain contact with the real deal. On the other hand, wherever you are, you will run into the teacher you need if the the universe is ready to accommodate you. Best of luck.

I laughed when my mom sent me a link to this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0LvKg5aCG0

Sadly, we will not be permitted to solve our energy crisis until our masters have made enough money. Anyone want to guess when that might happen? Great posts everyone!

Beautifully and succinctly put.

For the most part, most of our knowledge of "the sages" is based on myth, legend, fairy tales, and exaggerated stories handed down for generations. Detailed and exacting knowledge is questionable at best. That said, I would infer that people with the desire to cultivate themselves intellectually are often similarly disposed to cultivate the spiritual and physical aspects of themselves. Martial arts were one of the more common ways to do this in those times in China. Therefore, I think it's reasonable to assert that many of "the sages" were, in fact, martial artists. The jian, for example, was rarely, if ever, used as a weapon of combat but was favored by the upper classes, intellectuals, and martial artists - not the military. Another suggestion of the intersection of martial arts and scholars, intellectuals, and, perhaps, sage-types.

Some thoughts - Pain is a critically important experience. It's easy to address "physical" pain but the discussion doesn't stop there. It is an indicator that something is threatened or at risk. It is a protective mechanism. If a physical part is not healthy, it often needs some degree of protection or rest. Pain reminds of us this. Pain helps to prevent us from damaging ourselves. It helps us to investigate whether something is not healthy or well adjusted somewhere. At another level, pain is an indicator that there is an opportunity to grow. It can indicate a shortcoming or weakness that can serve as a focus for development or improvement. Pain can be a stimulus to rest or a stimulus to act. Pain can be embraced and appreciated for it's value or feared and avoided at all costs. It only becomes suffering when we treat it from a perspective of fear and anxiety. When we embrace it (to whatever degree we are capable) it can be a great teacher. This is a problem I have with the current push in the medical profession for "pain management." Pain should not be treated as an illness to be abolished. Most "pain management" I observe amounts to nothing more than facilitated opiate dependence. Pain is a natural and necessary experience (another is death) that only becomes toxic when it is expressed as a way of distracting us from psychological and emotional content that is more difficult to deal with. I really liked a brief discussion presented by Anthony Demello on psychological pain in his audio set - Wake Up To Life. He was a Jesuit, psychotherapist, and a spiritual guide. He often found himself deeply torn between treating a person's psychological pain (fulfilling his role as psychotherapist) vs allowing the person to experience deeper and more profound levels of pain which could potentially lead to a spiritual awakening and understanding of the need for major life change. Great topic for discussion - so much more could be written about this but enough for now...

It's a beautiful thing! I picked up Radix based on Ralis' recommendation as well. Cloud Atlas was a challenge for me at times but completely satisfying. What did you think of Cutting for Stone?

Just finished Cloud Atlas and loved it. I have tickets to see Crime and Punishment on stage in a few weeks - great book. I'm currently working my way towards: Radix - Attanasio Little Bee - Cleave Matterhorn - Marlantes Unbroken - Hillenbrand Cutting for Stone - Verghese and interspersed with the fiction, some non-fiction: Dhammapada The Gateless Gate - Yamada My own martial arts notebooks - reviewing training notes and teaching methods

In science, a theory is much more powerful than a fact. A fact is a single, observable event. A theory is a coherent explanation that has the power to predict future events which is exactly what evolutionary theory does. Science will never declare evolution a fact as it is much more important as a theory. The counter arguments made by creationists (even when they hide behind pseudo-science like ID) are not legitimate theories. They have no rational explanations for explaining or predicting events. They have no predictive power. They have no experimental basis. They are all about making an observation, claiming it cannot be explained by existing theory, and then making a completely gratuitous assertion that is untestable to explain it. Michael Behe himself (the God of ID) has admitted under oath in the Dover trial that by his definition of a scientific theory, Astrology much be considered a science. This is what happens when the rigorous protocols of the scientific method are relaxed as is advocated by Immortal4life in his desire for "progressive science." Is that what we are looking for? A return to Astrology and Witchcraft? I believe that is exactly what the Creationists and those that hide behind ID want because those "progressive sciences" help to support and legitimize a return of religion in general, and Christianity in particular, to the throne of humanity which has been usurped by science and rational thought. They would be right in their argument that science has not solved all of humanity's problems. Rational thought has not abolished crime, inhumanity, and suffering. What they choose not to give equal time to, however, is that neither does religion. Religion in it's most pure form was in total power during the darkest days of humanity (Middle Ages, Inquisition, Holy Wars) and it will never be any different. If anything, religion is even more corrupt and has deviated further from it's core since then so how could it be any better today? Humanity's suffering and failure to defeat inhumanity will never be corrected by religion, government, or even science. It is an internal struggle that manifests itself as an external problem. It is quite simply a result of the illusion that we are separate individuals. True religion can lead us in the right direction, that is - if each of us embarks on a personal, internal examination of ourselves until we reach the truth. Not what Immortal4life and his ilk want - that is, a conversion of everyone to their belief system. If each of us has true faith - NOT belief, then there is real hope. Belief is the fervent hope and desire that an unobservable, unprovable, and untestable idea is truth. Faith is when we have the confidence and courage that if we completely let go and rid ourselves of ALL beliefs, that which remains and we experience personally is truth. Not some religious vision fueled by years of conditioning and indoctrination, but simply and purely what each of us is at our core as we observe it personally. When we work long and hard enough to strip away the layers of the onion and see the truth at the core of ourselves, there is an understanding of love and that is the only thing that can stand up to our inhumanity. Sorry to preach but this subject is very close to my heart. I love you all - even you, Immortal4life. But you especially have a very long way to go to understand the message your savior was trying to impart. It's been twisted and corrupted by the institution that claims to protect it. You may consider reading or listening to the beautiful works of Anthony Demello - a Jesuit priest and psychologist who was truly enlightened and has the ability to help people see real truth in Christian scripture, if they have the courage to open their eyes and hearts.

I just watched this excellent NOVA documentary on the Dover, PA trial http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-404729062613200911# something I followed closely while it was going on. The one thing I find really striking is the fact that multiple folks on the plaintiffs' side (opposing ID) received hate mail and even death threats. These presumably came from the "religious" contingent that supports teaching ID. There is no greater irony to me than the violent predisposition of religious believers...

Just finished reading Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell. It explores themes along the lines of reincarnation and the soul. Just brilliant, IMO. It was inspired by Italo Calvino's If on a Winter's Night a Traveller... but whereas Calvino left each vignette unfinished, Mitchell creates a mirror effect and resolves each story.

If I may... Realize this every moment, it is always, ever, now. This is what all of the traditions are trying to tell us about eternal life and immortality and so on. Living deeply here and now with complete awareness and connection is to live eternally. Forget about trying to cheat death or worrying about reincarnation and future lives and what happens after death. It is those who don't know what to do with this life who are so preoccupied with what comes after and having future lives. If you live deeply in every moment, death holds no power over you.

Glad I could help Matt. I usually start sitting quietly with an intention of total awareness. I do a slow internal scan and then open myself to awareness of everything going on inside and outside of "me" for a bit, including breath awareness. Then I devote some time to a number of internal routines that are a part of the system I currently practice which is called Kun Lun Xian Zong Pai. If you're interested in that, feel free to send me a PM or email.