doc benway

Not at all - the teacher is just way beyond the students' skill level. Alot of the Chinese and Taiwanese players mix some Shuai Jiao in with Tui Shou in competition. This is just how they (we) practice. If you ever compete internationally - you need to be prepared for this.

Nice clip - a little touch of Shuai Jiao here and there but the teacher is demonstrating some very nice pushing hands techniques. It would be nice to see him against someone more skillful - he is way out of any of the students' league.

It's funny how lot's of much less credible and less experienced "masters" of Taijiquan love to publish demos of their superhuman skills but these "grandmasters" look just like me and my mates when we push... Where's the magic?

Great thread Stig - one of the single most important concerns for those of us interested in exploring ourselves. Can truly venture into the unknown, that is - beyond it's contents? Whatever the mind perceives and works with is, de facto, contained within it's contents and therefore, known. How does the mind conceptualize that which it does not know/contain/perceive? As it connects with new things, these things are integrated into it's existing framework, conditioning, and biases. Sure, we can think creatively, adopt new ideas and concepts, create beautiful art and science, but I think it is an inaccurate statement to call this a part of the unknown. Certainly, there are moments where we experience the AHA! phenomenon and seem to gain new insight or knowledge where before there was hope and belief. Nevertheless this is all a part of the contents of mind and, therefore, You Ming. I would suggest that it is a much more subtle thing to connect with Wu Ming than your original post suggests, Stig. I do not feel at all comfortable addressing how that occurs in words or ideas but I do feel that it is an absolutely critical exercise for each of us to try and wrestle with, if we are at all serious about our approach to reality. One way I like to phrase the question (inspired by J Krishnamurti) is something like - What is the quality of mind that can go beyond all of its contents and conditioning? To try and answer this question is futile because the answer must lie within the realm of the known. To ask the question and sit with it is worthwhile. This is one of the questions to life's answers....

I love new music. There is plenty out there that is full of heart and soul for me. It's just a matter of looking and being open to new things. Of course we are all conditioned to music (usually due to nostalgic associations) but I love falling in love with new music. A few samples of music from the last few years that I enjoy: From Brazil - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LegbmEX-_Z8 From Mali - Oumou Sangare and Ali Farka Toure are as passionate and soulful as any musicians who have lived, IMO... From Cuba - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRmpUtIX7Yo From the USA - This last one was written about 12 years ago but is soon to be re-released and I just saw them perform it live a few weeks ago - took me back to my teens (not that I was in my teens 12 years ago...). Great stuff!

Excellent point and the stories we tell ourselves are very tough to drop. First we have to become aware of them. So many exist at so many levels. And when we think we've rooted them out, there are more. And more are always being manufactured. The mind is such a subtle and devious thing. And beautiful, let's not forget that as well.

I think that the story telling you to drop stories is different. It is also telling you to drop itself as well as the others. It is asking us to experience rather than believe. When we accept a story without the direct experience, that is belief. When we have direct, personal experience of something, that is knowledge. I can accept that the OP's story is not a story but a suggestion that stories be dropped to make room for experience.

It might have been a thread relating to Bruce Frantzis. I made a comment in that one about the fire method. In general terms, water method tends to relate to dissolving whereas fire method involves a lot of focused attention/intention. Just a very gross simplification.

Some of my thoughts on motion when standing - When I stand, I sort of look at spontaneous movement as analogous to the process of thought during sitting (or standing) meditation. I don't encourage motion and I don't try to suppress it. It's there or it's not there and I simply don't get attached to it's presence or absence. It comes and goes. I think there is a component of healthy release associated with certain types of motion (particularly trembling and shaking) but getting too attached or focused on the motion can be a distraction from the standing itself.

Thanks for all this great stuff. One of our members here - Jeremy Harlow, has a lot of experience in Native American traditions and Daoist practices and has developed a beautiful set of Qigong that integrates the two. I don't think he's on the forum much but hopefully he'll stumble across this thread and contribute.

Of course he can. Being a Taoist is meaningless. What do you mean by that? A serial killer can burn incense and bow to the deities and cultivate and meditate and practice tai chi and do whatever else one would consider defines being a Taoist. A serial killer can be a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, an atheist. Murders (and all other criminals for that matter) are a complicated lot but many of them can fit into the label of religious persons. Murder is a part of the Dao. It is a fact.

Stimulated by the recent thread on movies, I just watched Enter the Void by Gaspard Noe. His first two films were absolutely horrific. I think his intention was to look closely at how we are desensitized to criminal acts and force us to experience (as much as you can in a movie theater) some of the pain and degradation associated with the experience. That said - I can't recommend his first two films in good conscience. His latest work, Enter the Void, is brilliant - though certainly not for everyone. It's loosely inspired by the TIbetan Book of the Dead and his own experimentation with hallucinogens and owes a lot to Kubrick's 2001, Aronofsky's Requiem for a Dream, and yet is completely original. It's very long and filled with audio and visual effects that try to simulate a DMT experience. Some pretty strong subject matter, explicit sex, and violence. Quite an intense 2 hour and 41 minute experience. @ Seth Ananda - I think you might find this redeems Noe to some degree.

More and more I keep my ideas and practices to myself or the small group of friends and fellow practitioners that I trust and have a connection with. I do think there is a time and place when we may help others. I mostly restrict that to times when I get the sense that someone who is sincere is looking for help and I may have something worthwhile to offer. As I get older, more experienced (and hopefully wiser) these opportunities are becoming much less common.

Inspiring - imagine the enormous courage this beautiful person is demonstrating. She is a target for every self-righteous religious fanatic in the Islamic world now. I wish her peace and courage and I hope she helps to inspire the poor Pakistanis living in terror and repression.

Hi Ben, I've practiced aikido (Yoshinkan and Ueshiba styles) in the past and I currently practice and teach Taijiquan. The two have a great deal in common. Based on my experience in Yoshinkan (pre-war) and Ueshiba (post-war) styles, I'm convinced that Ueshiba's approach to aikido was heavily influenced by exposure to Taijiquan and/or Baguazhang during his time in China during the war. I also practice Baguazhang, Xingyiquan, Qigong and Daoist meditation of the Kun Lun Xian Zong Pai. Sloppy Zhang's comments are accurate, IMO. What your teacher is doing is using his "mind of intent", as my current teacher would call it, to manipulate his situation - this includes not only his center of gravity but his opponents' centers and their psyches (for lack of a better word). There is a lot going on in such a demonstration and it is much different if demonstrating with people other than your own students or other aikido practitioners. I don't mean to take anything away or slam aikido - I love the art. But don't get too wrapped up in demonstrations. Many techniques used in demos are parlor tricks or depend on cooperative (often unintentionally or unaware of it) participants. Practice for a few years and you will understand what's going on. Identical principles are at play when you learn martial applications of Taijiquan and Baguazhang (and other arts, such as Shuai Jiao and Qin Na). Don't worry too much about the how and why - immerse yourself and trust the method. It will work but is a serious investment. The fruits are slow to blossom.

It is fine to be doing what he is teaching. It will not harm you in any way.

I have a lot of respect for Bruce Frantzis. I think he is a skillful martial artist and his water method books are very good. I do take issue with some of the things he says about the fire methods. Some of his comments are way off mark and have me questioning his level of experience in fire methods. I've yet to find a book that does justice to fire methods and have pretty much given up on reading about it. Better to try and find a teacher.

The vast majority of non-indigenous users smoke Salvia, smoking usually involves fire. I won't bother with the rest of your post as I have no interest in defending my statements or trying to change your opinions. Be well.

IMO, meaningful cultivation and intoxication are mutually exclusive unless you are working with an experienced and credible shaman. Even then, there is nothing more pure than natural, unadulterated awareness. This is the state in which true contact with reality occurs. All intoxicants are tricksters and most experiences under such influence are nothing more than entertainment. Beware of Salvia - if you must experience it I would highly recommend having a sober and resourceful sitter who cares about you and is physically and emotionally able to prevent you from hurting yourself. You're playing with fire - literally.

Welcome Andrew - nice post. I would suggest that you continue along your present course. You will learn much more by doing than reading. Depending on your conditioning you can begin to categorize and label what your experience is in Daoist, Hindu, Christian, Jewish, or Buddhist terms. They are just incomplete descriptions of the reality. A more focused method of cultivation can be useful depending on your goals but, IMO, the goal and the restricted method is an obstacle we create which eventually leads us back to the beginning. If you continue on your present path, I am confident that you will continue to grow. Namaste

Nice post - belief is accepting something that someone else may or may not have experienced. Better to be aware and know.

With due respect, this post is poppy-cock. I would absolutely agree that evolution is nothing more than a reasonably scientifically verifiable description of observations over time. It is very consistent and useful as a theory but it does not mean that we know everything about how human life developed on earth. Heck, we don't even know what makes a gnat tick for goodness sake. Nevertheless, without the scientific method, electricity and TaoBums would not exist. The theory of evolution does not, in any way, exclude the possible existence of all things spiritual and moral, the two are mutually independent. Creationists, fundamentalists, and people who like to hide behind the term Intelligent Design, all try to paint scientific investigation of human and natural development as somehow excluding the possibility of the divine or the supernatural. Not true at al - on the other hand, proof that contradicts portions of evolution theory does NOT prove the existence of the divine or supernatural. Disproving or challenging one theory does nothing to support or prove a completely unrelated, gratuitous assertion like ID. Another little sleight of hand you guys like to use. Human intelligence is de facto proof of the existence of intelligence in nature. Meaning only exists as a consequence of the mind's desire for an explanation. It does not exist outside of human thought. Why is it so important to prove things like a designer, universal morality, intelligent meaning and purpose? The reason is that you have yet to realize that you are already all of that. You are simply the eyes through which everything is aware of itself (insert any spiritual, religious, or Intelligent Design buzz-words you like for the "everything"). Relax, don't worry about ID and evolution and all of those words and ideas and crap and just enjoy the few years that you've chosen to incarnate yourself here on earth as you. Soon, you'll open your eyes as a different you and it'll start all over again!

Yes, indeedy!

I love throat singing - I've been a fan of it since I first heard The Kronos Quartet's version of Kongurei. I've seen Hun Huur Tuu in concert - absolutely breathtaking! I tried it myself but its tough and I don't have the respiratory system for it (asthma). Check out Genghis Blues - a movie about a blind American blues singer who taught himself how to do it after hearing it on a Russian radio broadcast on short wave. He then traveled to Tuva. Great film.

Science is short hand for "the scientific method." As much as I dislike many wiki articles, the article on the scientific method is pretty good and here is the intro - "Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge.[1] To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning." Spirituality and intuition are mostly exempt from the scientific method by necessity due to the lack of observable, empirical, and measurable evidence. This is unlikely to change any time soon. As much as you would like to see science include such ambiguous and subjective fields as these, it would be of absolutely no value. It would not be an expansion of the scientific method. It would render the scientific method useless and return us to the dark ages. Not necessarily a bad thing, but not something that the majority of folks living in modern society would be interested in. There is great value in spiritual and intuitive pursuits and there is great value in the scientific method. Trying to mix the two is an exercise in futility and benefits neither, IMO. Perhaps that will change in time but, to be honest, I have no need of science while practicing Daoist meditation and I have no need of spirituality in performing a scientific experiment. Ultimately, I believe both methods point to the same truths though different avenues. Mixing the two compromises each and adds nothing at this point.