doc benway

Some guitar related stuff.... as you may figure out, I'm obsessed with Dusan Bogdanovic's music. A traditional lullaby done in an improvisatory manner - Dusan's specialty Oh3YYYoWQUw A very beautiful, hypnotic piece - probably my single favorite piece to play (but this isn't me) VeK8B4Wq6BY And another classical guitar genius - Carlo Domeniconi. Here is his piece called Koyunbaba which is meant to evoke the Turkish countryside. The first movement as performed by Aniello Desiderio dCxtS6AZG7k I can't find a really good clip of the 2nd movement yet... The last two movements as performed by the composer DwKDLgwTnQU nqw043POqRw ps it's not quite as hard as it sounds, I play it passably well, but certainly not like him. If you're a guitarist, track down the music - it's a lot of fun to play.

I started training in Japanese martial arts at age 12. Mostly empty hand but then got into the sword arts. I then got into Wing Chun. My teacher got thrown in jail after several years of training with him, so back to Japanese arts. When I hit 40, I found I could no longer train hard with the young guys and manage to get up for work the next morning. Too many injuries, too much soreness and stiffness (I was in a very traditional school that emphasized full contact). That's what stimulated me to seek out Taijiquan. For the first year or two it was just the form and QiGong and was very healing and healthy and built me up. Then I got into the more martial side of the training but there's a very different quality to the physical training that doesn't cause me to always be so sore and injured, even when we train very physically and very hard. Sure, my back is sore quite a bit from some of the pushing and pulling and throwing and I get bruised up quite a bit, but it's not like it used to be in the Japanese school. Plus, the QiGong and form continually rejuvenate me after the tough training. At the recommendation of my teacher, I also took up Daoist meditation which brings a whole other aspect to the table. So my reasons for practicing internal arts - Health and fitness Self defense training Spiritual development I like 'extreme harmony' - that actually would be a pretty fair English translation of Tai Ji. I dislike the usual tranlation - supreme ultimate, it totally misses the point. It's way too lopsided in English. Extreme harmony or, better yet, harmony of extremes or unity of extremes, is a much better translation. Do you know anyone teaching in the Sarasota area? My family lives there and I'd love to find them a good program down there. At least until I decide to move!

Good points, Pietro. For all we know, once out of the closet, the Daoist practitioners may end up on someone's list somewhere, just waiting for the next extermination attempt. I'd certainly be wary in their shoes.

Hi Stig, Not sure if this will help at all. I live in the West but I wouldn't consider myself a Daoist. I'm not much for definitions, labels, and categories. I do practice Taijiquan and Daoist meditation daily. My practices have spilled over into my daily life. I'm lucky enough to have found a good teacher. My teacher doesn't advocate much in the way of reading or study. He's not one for philosophical discussions or interpretations. I have done some reading about Daoism nonetheless - I've read a few translations of Laozi in English and I've tried translating a few of the chapters myself (not very well). I've read a few English translations of Zhuangzi and Liezi and a variety of other writings on Daoism. I've read nearly nothing on the subject for the past year or so, although I have been reading Anthony Demello and Jiddu Krishnamurti on and off, both of whom are very Daoist in their insights and approach, though they wouldn't take labels as such, if they were alive I suspect. Demello was a Jesuit and Krishnamurti eschewed labels of all kinds - this was a big part of his fundamental teaching. His teachings were a very direct expression of Dao De Jing's first chapter. I don't practice any of the "religious" aspects of Daoism. I have no interest in deities, incantations, magic, fus, Yijing, and the like. If my teacher ever offered to help me study Yijing, I would consider it, otherwise I just don't have the interest. Too intellectual for my taste right now. I don't spend much time studying the philosophy but rather I find myself living it. It helps me immensely in my daily life. I'm always looking for and finding the world to be a reflection of the principles of Tai Ji and Wu Wei. It allows for a great deal of personal understanding and acceptance, particularly in times of stress or when faced with unpleasant situations. Trying to "define" Western Daoism would be a bit presumptuous and artificial, IMO. Similarly, trying to define Daoism alone is a formidable, if possible task. One aspect of Western Daoism that I think is very important to be aware of is the diaspora, if you will, of Chinese Daoists that occurred as a result of the cultural revolution in China. Mao's policies effectively neutered much of traditional Chinese culture, Daoism included. Most serious martial artists and practitioners of the Daoist methods were either jailed, executed, went into hiding, or fled. Those that didn't have mostly died of natural causes by now. A few may have managed to pass along their skills and knowledge but much was lost. The Chinese may not want the world to believe this but much of what is considered traditional Chinese martial art and Daoist practice is an attempt at reconstruction and commercialization by the powers that be currently. This is probably one reason for the recent Daoist event you attended. It's certainly the case in places like Shaolin and Wudang and even Chen village. Much of the ancient wisdom is dead and gone. Some has survived, much of that on Taiwan and elsewhere outside of China. I would take many of the "experts" in China with a large grain of salt. Many of the finest martial arts and cultivation experts fled to Taiwan and elsewhere and their legacies carry on in other places. I think a lot of anger and bitterness exist in China as a result of their losses during the latter half of the 20th century. Some of this is displaced onto foreigners and other easy targets as it remains very difficult and risky to manifest anger and resentment toward those that are the most deserving - the leadership and the very people themselves who bought into the insanity. So I think Western Daoism is a very complex subject. It includes Westerners, like myself, who are lucky enough to have credible teachers and practice Daoist methods and others who try to practice from books and videos and the like (most of which, unfortunately are incomplete, inaccurate, and often the creations of opportunists who have cobbled together bits and pieces of a variety of traditions). It includes Westerners who are attracted to the philosophical insights of Daoism. It includes martial artists who are attracted to the spiritual aspects of their practice. It includes refugees of Mao's cultural genocide and their offspring and successors. It includes the Chinese diaspora in general who practice the rituals of religious Daoism in their new homes. And it includes quite a few opportunists, occultists, and new agers who are drawn to things like immortality and magic and who think they will find such secrets or an opportunity for exploitation in these practices. Daoism both in and outside of China is a very heterogeneous subject that I think will be very tough to capture in a meaningful definition. Good luck with your project.

Never really looked into George's music beyond My Sweet Lords. I was a Beatles fan up until they split and beyond. I got into John's solo work quite a bit but none of the others. I'll check out some of George's stuff. Thanks

I agree. You seem to have a way of communicating where you are and what you feel very nicely. Now that you feel you can only find answers inside yourself, how to go about looking there? I think that's the next step.

Very nice post Ryan. Welcome to the TaoBums. A little extra love is always a good thing. _/\_

I think this is a very accurate insight. Caveat Emptor.

Unfortunately, the world seems better in the "civilized/modern" areas exactly because of the misery that occurs in the "uncivilized/primitive" areas. There is a reason why the US has less than 1% of the world's population and uses somewhere around 20% of the world's resources. The developed world is such at the cost of the underdeveloped world. Arguably, one could state that it is exactly the mixing of cultures that is tending to polarize and cause extremism in some due to the threat of assimilation. The rest of your post is exactly the point I'm trying to make - we are in complete agreement. The world can only change if each and every one of us makes the choice of love and compassion as individuals. My questions about how the world could change were rhetorical. We need to really think on this very seriously as individuals so that we can find the answers for ourselves. I've suffered for years about this stuff. When I turned ~ 35 I underwent a dramatic change. After years of working hard and playing the game like a good contributor to the economy, I woke up from a perspective of moral and social responsibility. It happened to coincide with the aftermath of the Rwandan and Bosnian genocides. This was the beginning of my serious investigation into myself, spirituality, suffering, and all that jazz. Like your experience in the guard, I've come to understand that institutions, be they political, social, religious, will and have always failed. Sure there are small isolated gains and those are balanced with loss. They inevitably succumb to politics and corruption or compromise (which are all one and the same, anyway). I don't mean to sound as if I'm callous. I care very deeply about the pain and suffering demonstrated in these awful photos and the countless other injustices we could never finish listing in our lifetime. But the only thing that I can do seems to be to treat those around me with love and compassion and hope that will propagate. Nevertheless, in the history of humanity there has never been an end to suffering. Technological advancement may have improved the lives of some but I believe that there is no less suffering in the world now than ever before. If anything, those most primitive cultures that have not been corrupted yet by "civilization" are the few bastions of really moral and ethical humans, IMO. I would go so far as to say that morality and compassion are true human nature and it is modern civilization, social convention, and conditioning that have perverted our true nature. You can assert that the balance of beauty and horror in humanity is not a reflection of the balance of yin and yang but I challenge you to really look into the question deeply. We only know beauty by it's contrast to ugliness. We only know pain by it's contrast with pleasure. If all was good, we would not recognize it as such. We would have no concept of it as there would be nothing to define it as things are defined by contrast. This is the point of the very famous Zhuangzi parable about "when the shoe fits, the foot is forgotten" - if there was no dark, light would have no meaning. This is at the very heart of Daoist philosophy and science, the nature of things - Tai Ji. Which brings us back to gold's initial point - not all truth is beautiful, I'll editorialize that truth is more accurately a balance of beauty and ugliness. And yet, this is not as bad a thing as it may seem because understanding and embracing this balance seems to me to be the foundation of love. All that hot air aside, given the opportunity, I would personally and gladly exact vengeance on behalf of the poor women depicted in those horrific photos.

Then what are you waiting for? What is everyone else in the world waiting for? Why hasn't it changed yet?

Because they are afraid.

Because we cannot fathom the mind that would give birth to such an act, we make the error of seeing ourselves as separate from and "better than" those would do such terrible things. This will never lead to meaningful change. It is a very difficult thing to do, but we must try to understand the mind that would do something like this. They are also thinking clearly, within their frame of reference. They recognize the implications of what they do. Their acts are even CONDONED by their culture, implicitly if not explicitly. This is the power of conditioning. Look at South Africa - young children, even babies are raped regularly due to the myth that sex with a virgin will protect against AIDS. The government for many years did nothing to dispel the myth for fear of public uprising. They still don't do enough. Ironically, many of the rapists are already infected and simply spread the disease further. US foreign policy initiated under Bush blocked all federal aid to programs if there was any use of condoms. This allowed further spread of AIDS, unwanted pregnancy, and so on... Look at forced female circumcision. Look at Rwanda. Look at Bosnian rape camps and death camps. Look at Southeast Asian oil pipelines. Look at the diamond trade, sexual slavery in Thailand. The horrific treatment of female children in China. I'm peripherally involved with a group that provides support in the US for refugees who are the survivors of torture and abuse. The African continent is absolutely rife with political torture and exploitation. This is humanity. This is our world. For every beauty there is a horror. This, unfortunately, is the human manifestation of Tai Ji. For every extreme of good there is an equal and opposite bad, more or less. The good defines that bad, just as front defines back. We can remove the individuals, we can remove the political leaders, we can do so violently or quietly. Nothing will change from the outside. It hasn't changed since the beginnings of human civilization. People must change from the bottom up if there is ever to be any change. The source of the conditioning must change. How can that happen?

Hagar - as always, your words are direct and true. How is it that humanity can transform itself? We have suffered like this for centuries. Nothing has helped us - not our religions, our politicians, our philosophy, technology. None of it - What will it take for us to wake up and begin to love?

I met Livia Kohn at a seminar once a few years back. She is very knowledgeable, particularly about female energy related stuff. I don't know what/if she teaches or practices but she's written a lot and may be worth looking up.

"What is the point?" What is the point of a sunset? What is the meaning of a bird's song? We only look for the meaning of life when we are not living.

Good responses so far - Similar to the points made by apepch7, I think it's very instructive when you are unhappy in a situation to also look at what it is in or about yourself that may be making you feel unhappy. Recognize that it is not the external world that makes us feel good or bad - it is our own expectations, desires, disappointments, and so forth. We tend to change the situation in hopes of improving things but often end up bringing our same baggage to the new situation. I'm not Buddhist but I see great value in the concept of "right occupation". If possible, try to work in a role and environment where you feel like you are making positive contributions to others, yourself, your community, and so on. All jobs tend to become wearisome eventually. Sometimes it is simply knowing that you are doing good in some way that makes it more palatable in the long run. This aspect of my occupation didn't mean much to me at one point in my life but does now. Good luck!

I personally did not like his approach or presentation when he was active on this forum. I have no independent knowledge of his credibility or practices.

I appreciate the honesty of this post. I think this is a healthy sign. It's fine to follow the guidance of the "authorities" to a point. It's even more important to recognize exactly what you are saying - no one knows any more than you do. The thing about authority is that it only exists in so far as you choose to accept it. I think you might enjoy the work of one of my favorite authors - Jiddu Krishnamurti. The book To Be Human is a very good starting place. His basic premise is that there are no methods or authorities - one must do the work on one's own ultimately. I think this is a great point that is usually overlooked. By the time someone reaches the point of being able to let go of the crutches and authorities, they have invariably depended on them to some degree for some period of time. Would they have reached those same conclusions without that preparation? I don't know the answer but it begs asking.

I don't have that feeling about you at all. Welcome and be yourself

My favorite beginner books on Daoism are: When the Shoe Fits: Stories of the Taoist Mystic Chuang Tzu by Osho The Tao is Silent by Raymond Smullyan Ultimately, Daoism is not about knowledge or reading or even any particular practice (although many would probably disagree with me on that point). That is why the Daoist sage is always portrayed as a bit of an eccentric and simple-minded peasant. If your goal is to practice Daoist cultivation, I would urge you to look for a teacher, not a book.

Different words describing one reality... Agreed.

Most systems you will find in the West and in books, and in China, for that matter are incomplete or relatively recent and often constructed by unqualified people. You may want to investigate the modern history of QiGong in China. You will not like what you learn. I don't believe that any (or at least many) QiGong forms were intended to be complete systems of physical, mental, and spiritual growth. The old QiGong sets that I've learned are relatively short collections of exercises. Often they are designed for a specific purpose. For example, I practice ShiBa LuoHan QiGong and it is a great set to practice very hard for martial conditioning or very soft for Qi cultivation but its best to focus on one method or the other for an extended period of time to maximize the benefits. Similarly, I practice an "ancient" Eight Brocades set that is clearly more intended for overall Qi balancing/meridian opening and so on for health. TaiJi Quan can be a relatively complete system, provided the soft and hard elements are balanced as already mentioned. Nevertheless it is incomplete without Dao meditation and neigong practices which may or may not be an inherent part of the system being taught (usually not). As Marble mentioned, the important thing is to balance life as a whole and you may need a variety of practices to achieve that. It may be difficult to find everything you want/need in one system. In fact, IMO - there is really no need for a system at all..... unless we believe it to be so.

It wouldn't surprise me, not one little bit... May I join you as well?