doc benway

I have too many teachers to thank in one lifetime - But this is a timely thread for me and I would like to thank my good friend Jeremy who has helped to show me the value of honesty and integrity.

To the OP - this is not meant to attack your thread, just sharing my thoughts on the matter... Why do we care what happens after we die? What does it matter? It's only when we are not really living that we worry about what happens after death. If we live life with eyes wide open and really see who and what we are, there is absolutely no interest in what happens after we die.

To the OP, if you're still there.... Question for you - if the mind is the chooser, who or what is it that is making the choice? Look at that for a while. You don't need to get rid of anything. Just look at it, see it for what it is. I think that some of us feel somehow that we are not seeing the whole picture. We start to search for something. That something leads us to question all that we hold dear, all of our stability and security. If you have enough energy and seriousness, you will inevitably become uncomfortable with what you find. At some point, the recognition occurs that "I" am simply a construct of societal, cultural, parental conditioning and conventions. We start to see through all of the bullshit and lies and hypocrisy. We choose to let all of that go and then realize that there is nothing left. No security. No stability. No rules and conventions. Unchartered territory. Liberation! Some of us will find solace in ritual, dogma, sutras, or scripture. Still conditioning. Let it all go and see for yourself - I think you are doing that. If you are frightened, you are probably seeing things more clearly than most. At some point you may also see that there is something more that allows you to again feel secure and at peace despite a complete lack of any real security or stability. And who you are is always still there, it's just that you get to choose when to play the game and when to be free of it. As has been said, you no longer have the choice to just go back. You can try but you've gotten a glimpse of truth and it will stick with you. It won't always be uncomfortable though, I think that is just a transition. Good luck to you! _/\_

Exactly!

From time to time there is discussion about the Shiba Luohan Qigong set. It can be done with dynamic tension for physicial conditioning or equally well with focus on intention for Qi cultivation. I usually do the latter. Here is a demonstration that's pretty close to the way I learned this set. Overall, I do it more slowly whether favoring internal or external development. In particular, I like to do the kicks very slowly and with control. Enjoy IHc_ZUR10Sg

Only the hot ones!

I don't mean to sound patronizing or smug but I genuinely feel that the dedicated practice of awareness and mindfulness are THE most powerful magic.

Great video - I'm glad you weren't using a sharp sword...

All good points below. I practice Taijiquan primarily and a little Xingyi and Bagua. I used to fight full contact when training in a Japanese style (too old now). In my experience, very few IMA practitioners ever figure out how to really make it work. Either they haven't been given the proper training tools or they haven't trained hard and long enough (or both). It's not easy to make it work but trying to figure it out is a great way to spend free time...

Liberation for me is to be free of attachments to things, ideas, images, people, goals and so forth. To enjoy all of those things thoroughly when I choose but to have no need of any of it. Liberation is the end of clinging and the beginning of happiness.

What is it that we should be asking?

Hi Mestena, Thank you for sharing this story so openly A few thoughts - You do not need this boyfriend in your life to be happy. Happiness does not come from other people - that's an illusion. When you depend on another for happiness, you're creating a trap for both of you. You are perfectly capable of living a fulfilling life without him. Once you are comfortable in that understanding, then and only then choose whether you want to continue to be with him. Regarding his one drunken mistake. It will not be the last. We all make mistakes - more than once. If you choose to be with him, you will need to live with the consequences of his mistakes and he with yours. If you feel so strongly for each other that you would choose to spend the rest of your lives together and raise a family, dealing with the child from another brief relationship will be just one of many challenges you will face. Believe me, there are much worse things (and much better things) to come. Anything can happen - she may miscarry, she may win the lottery and disappear from your lives, this may all be a lie, the child may prove to be the light of your lives. Life is never predictable. Try not to worry too much about tomorrow, just choose whether or not you want to be with him today. Talk to him, look into his eyes, make love, have dinner... just live for now and see what happens.

Cool cartoon!

This is a great question and idea for a thread. This is actually pretty important to me and it's a little embarrassing to talk about it even though I'm not sure why I feel that way. To me, living a Daoist life is living consistent with Wu Wei. I do this primarily by practicing awareness. The more aware I am of what is going on inside and outside of "me" the more I come into contact with and understand my nature. I can identify and understand my conditioning, my attachments, and so forth. As I get in touch with my nature, I can act in accordance with that rather than going against it. When I am not aware, it is easy to fall into the trap of living like a robot whose programming is my social and cultural conditioning. That is not human nature, it's insanity and a corruption of nature, IMO. That's what I'm currently working on. I'm not terribly successful - I'm constantly amazed at how inconsistent I am. I'm always finding myself bound up in various attachments and distractions. But at least I'm much more aware of it than previously. And the more I'm able to let go, the more liberated I feel.

_/\_

Agreed - it's tough to live that way but definitely worth the effort. One of my favorite quotes comes from Fr. Anthony Demello - It is not selfish to live my life exactly as I see fit, what is selfish is for me to expect you to lead your life as I see fit.

Ironic - you post a quote criticizing dependence on credentials and the credentials of the author of the quote get in the way! It was worth quoting nonetheless and timely - I almost linked to it in response to SereneBlue's question of credentials in the "walls" thread.

My (very limited) understanding is that Confucianism and Daoism are inseparably mixed into Chinese culture. Many of the traditions intertwine. I've read somewhere that Confucius addresses more of the social and familial conventions whereas Daoism was directed to a large degree at political and spiritual matters and this has been verified by my teacher who is Chinese and Daoist. I think this a gross oversimplification but the two disciplines are by no means mutually exclusive.

I have a different approach. I really struggled when trying to read Laozi (Lao Tsu) and Zhuangzi (Chuang Tsu). They were a complete turn off and I didn't pursue the topic for a long time. The book that prepared the way for me to understand Zhuangzi was "When the Shoe Fits" by Osho. I also found books on Daoism by Alan Watts to be very useful as well as a very nice book called "The Tao is Silent" by Raymond Smullyan. These were much easier for me to grasp early on. IMO, Dao De Jing and the works of Zhuangzi are very advanced and require alot of patience and reflection. Some translations, however, have nice commentaries which are helpful.

The following superstitions and practices came from my Jewish grandmother of Western European (German-Polish) extraction - 1. She had a very large and beautiful quartz crystal. She would put a piece of silver under it and make a wish for very important things. They would always come true but would take a toll on her health of some sort. 2. She would go crazy if I described another person's illness or injury and made any sort of gesture to describe or demonstrate the injury on my own body. 3. She would invoke a Yiddish expression "ken ayina hora" which literally means "without the evil eye" if I ever made a complimentary comment about someone's health, appearance, or good fortune of any sort. She was of the mind that a compliment would potentially invoke a jinx. 4. To treat a wart, she would cut off the root of an old potato, rub it on the wart and bury it in the ground. Three weeks later, when the root was rotten, the wart would fall off. I later found out that potatoes are a source of trichloroacetic acid which is a common ingredient in most modern, over the counter wart medications.

Now I am sure - I do agree with you, thanks for clarifying. This is a great thread! I get what you are saying. My point is that he claims awareness is separate, or more accurately "in some way separate" from phenomena then uses that assertion to make the substantial claim that "unity" is not "the true answer." His argument here has no substance. He does nothing to demonstrate that awareness is "in some way separate" and therefore has no basis for his second claim.

For a great treatment of this method check out Nisargadatta Maharaj or Sri Ramana Maharshi. The basic method is this - Ask yourself "Who Am I?" Start by ruling out all the simple possibilities - I am my name - wrong, you are still the same if you change your name I am my profession - see above .... my religion - ditto .... my conditioning - conditioning can be overcome ..... my brain - you can have massive amounts of your brain removed or damaged and "you" are still there ... my heart - you could have a heart transplant and so on until you completely run out of possibilities. Then ask, who is it that is asking the question "Who Am I?" Then, who or what is it that is aware that this question "Who Am I?" is being asked. And so on... this is like an infinite regression. Whenever any other question comes up, inquire "to whom did this thought occur?" Eventually you will answer "to me!" which leads back to "Who Am I?" If you practice this with a great deal of patience and commitment, things will happen. It is very simple but exceptionally difficult. Good luck!

Not sure I agree with you gold. Isn't all insight experiential? Insight, as I define it, goes beyond intellect and analysis.

I love Chomsky's work. I think that mathematicians and physicists aren't too concerned with credentials simply because they can look at one's proposals and theories, put them to the test and know ultimately whether they hold water or not through relatively straightforward and 'doable' calculations and debate. Similarly, if someone shows up in my taijiquan class and talks a lot about taiji theory and Daoist theory and martial applications, I can easily test their theories in a friend pushing hands match. I don't care if they have a philosophy degree or not and I don't care if they have a black sash or black belt or whatever. It's put up or shut up. On the other hand, when we begin to talk about social issues and philosophy, we are in a very different situation. How can we test philosophical, political, and social assertions and ideas? Generally only through debate. To prove a point about social and political science requires large scale observations and experiments that are generally outside the scope of a discussion forum. Otherwise, we are just trading gratuitous assertions. Here then, what we do, is try and limit the discussion to those with appropriate "credentials" assuming that these credentials mean that the presenter must be making valid points. Bullshit! I love Chomsky's work.