doc benway

I've had the occasional lucid dream since childhood. I then began practicing in an organized and devloted way after getting exposed to dream and sleep teachings from Yungdrung Bön. I follow the Bön teachings on dream and sleep from the Mother Tantra. I practiced dream yoga in a dedicated way for about 3 years and then sleep yoga for another 2 years after that. I haven't been practicing either recently but will go back to them periodically. It varies quite a bit depending on the circumstances I find myself in. I enjoy flying very much. I seek teachings from masters. I meditate. I experiment with traveling. I play around with mirrors. I do the exercises we are taught to develop stability and control of the dream environment. I try to resolve violent and frightening dreams into peaceful ones. I try to dissolve the dreams to access the clear light of sleep. Endless possibilities. Abstain from drugs and alcohol, marijuana in particular. Create a sacred, electronics-free sleeping environment. Wind down slowly at the day's end, eating a light dinner, and disconnecting from all electronics for at least a few hours, do some supportive and mentally cleansing practices before bed, approach sleep as a sacred and precious activity. Make your daytime practice every bit as important as the sleep-time practice itself. Approach the lucid dream as sacred - it is fine to treat lucid dreams as entertainment if that is your only objective but I feel the dream world opens more fully to a more reverential approach, much as one would do for example with something like ayahuasca. Consistency, persistence, and patience are key for me. It took me a long time to begin having regular and somewhat predictable lucid dreams, nearly 2 years of regular practice. If you can afford to do it in the setting of a prolonged retreat under the guidance of a master it will come much faster. It's challenging to develop the skills and supportive environment on your own, living in the busy, over-stimulated Western world. It is highly dependent on your emotional, physical, and psychological condition. It is very beneficial to spend time clearing obstacles from your life before engaging with dream and sleep practices.

Sorry to hear that, he did have some deep insights. I got a lot out of a few of his books, When the Shoe Fits in particular. The documentary about him on Netflix was quite eye-opening for me and well done.

I think they generally realize it early and move on

abaft

Not specifically but I think it's an excellent idea. I've tagged @Trunk, @ilumairen, @dwai, and @zerostao and would be happy to create something like that if the admin/mod team approve. My thought would be to put it as a subforum in General Discussion or Healing Circle. We could make it a standard public forum or consider making it limited access by request only so that it is not searchable, similar to Current Events and gender specific forums, that way anyone not following the guidelines could be excluded without being otherwise penalized. I'll defer to the current management team but happy to help in any way on this.

So??? Don't keep us hanging... which is it?

@Ursus mellifera Please try now, you should have access. PS - please make sure you also still have access to the Garden Men's forum. Sometimes adding one secondary forum access can interfere with another.

As they were growing up, I would sometimes ask my children (and myself) to consider the question - would you prefer to be rich or happy? The knee jerk response is often 'rich' but it takes little research to demonstrate that wealth does not equal happiness. I think being right is similar...

I responded there for anyone interested.

道德經: 天地不仁，以萬物為芻狗；聖人不仁，以百姓為芻狗。天地之間，其猶橐籥乎？虛而不屈，動而愈出。多言數窮，不如守中。 (The use of emptiness) Heaven and earth do not act from (the impulse of) any wish to be benevolent; they deal with all things as the dogs of grass [sic. straw dogs] are dealt with. The sages do not act from (any wish to be) benevolent; they deal with the people as the dogs of grass are dealt with. May not the space between heaven and earth be compared to a bellows? 'Tis emptied, yet it loses not its power; 'Tis moved again, and sends forth air the more. Much speech to swift exhaustion lead we see; Your inner being guard, and keep it free. ...English translation by James Legge from Dao De Jing chapter 5 source: https://ctext.org/dao-de-jing

Wouldn’t it be fun to watch each of them try?

It’s also a little tricky to discuss the question in very general terms. Teaching what? to whom? these things certainly make a difference.

One way to look at it is the teacher should always be too advanced for you. If there is a disconnect, a problem learning, the question is whether they are able and willing to teach at a level you can learn. The more advanced the teacher, the more easily they should be able to teach at any level, even at multiple levels simultaneously. IMO, the best teacher teaches to the least experienced person in the group. The more advanced students are expected to learn from everything, even the most basic instructions, you can never get enough of the basics if you want to master the advanced levels in most disciplines. I agree that if the teacher wants to focus on something not appropriate for beginners, it is always an option to exclude beginners from the teaching and perhaps have senior students work with that person. If you're not learning it is not because the teacher is too advanced, more likely they are not advanced enough. Also important to look at the student and the student teacher relationship. Not all relationships are a good fit, maybe a different teacher is needed. Not all students know how to learn, that is an art in and of itself. One of the greatest lessons I learned from my neijia master was how to learn. He taught very clearly and patiently to beginners, pushed intermediates to their limit and challenged advanced students to keep up. Teaching is an art that is only in part related to the subject matter. Not only does it deepen one's understanding of and relationship to the subject matter but develops another skill set that can be applied across multiple disciplines.

A look? Basic I've mastered the art of cutting through armor with a fart! That way I can destroy my enemies in front and behind simultaneously after enjoying any of a number of my favorite meals! A well fed warrior is a fearsome opponent.

I find it hard to talk about bliss. I don't look at bliss an objective thing or state that has different versions, or a single version for that matter. I look at it as an arbitrary label that people attach to subjective experience that is extraordinarily complex and continuously changing. Any experience of so-called bliss can be broken down into many facets and layers. There are cultural influences, individual influences, perceptual and physical influences, spiritual, and so on. And we can never experience what someone else calls bliss reliably as experience is unique to each of us. So to try and define bliss as something that is fixed and objective, and meaningful independent of context doesn't ring true for me. The experiences in my life that I might label as blissful have had some common ground. The commonalities tend to involve a sense of release, a sense of return, a deep and satisfying feeling of coming home. On occasion it can be energetically intense, exhilarating, even overwhelming; ecstatic and orgasmic. At other times more a sense of complete and fully satisfying ease, a release and letting go. The feeling of melting into a comfy bed after exhausting work. Coming home after a long and arduous journey. The comfort felt when an intense pain has finally eased. The freedom one might feel when released from a long time in a cage or prison. The satisfaction of reaching the peak after a long climb. The spaciousness experienced when connecting to a boundless experience of stable and effortless meditation. So for me bliss is connected to a release or dissolving of obstacles, finding one's way back to something one had lost or was missing. In the spiritual context it relates to returning to one's true self that was never not already present but was obscured. As I've mentioned before one way to look at enlightening experience is not so much that we are experiencing a particular state or objective condition that can be labeled bliss, or enlightenment, or contentment for that matter. What we are experiencing is the release of whatever blockage or obstacle was restricting us from a more full and complete sense of what and who we are at a deeper, more pervasive and satisfying level.

change

he who cannot lie how would he recognize truth? can fish smell water?

I'm not offering any proof of anything, just my own imperfect perspective. Signs are of no value from the ultimate perspective, they are irrelevant. All is complete and spontaneously perfected with no preference for signs or lack of signs. Signs can be valuable from the relative perspective. How to know if signs are an indicator of spiritual progress? One way is to look at the hundreds and thousands of writings and teachings from multiple wisdom traditions over millennia. Another is to observe changes in one's own direct experience in relation to the presence or absence of certain signs. Some signs are so unquestionably clear that one simply knows with certainty, others are much more subtle and experienced guidance can be useful for interpretation. No doubt there are risks and bad actors. I am an ardent disbeliever. Question everything and everyone. Don't believe, just recognize what is known and what is not known and how to tell the difference. Be as familiar with signs of abuse and manipulation as for awakening and transformation. Tibetans say it takes 12 years to know if a guru/path is right for you... don't commit too easily. I would say that there is a role for following your heart but equally important to be an educated consumer. There are many questions we can ask ourselves - Does the path make sense to me and is it consistent with my values and lifestyle? Is it empowering or does it make me a slave to a master or system? Does my teacher embody the characteristics I would want to manifest in my life? Do I feel more flexible more self-confident, more playful, easy and free or more serious and stressed? Am I becoming more or less reactive in stressful situations? Am I feeling and looking healthier in mind and body? Am I more isolated or more connected? How am I engaging with others, especially family and friends and how are they experiencing me? I think these are some things we can look to for guidance. It can be a tough thing to see clearly for ourselves.

How would one know what specifically?

If one chases the words and biases of various teachers and traditions, particularly if focused on their differences, it’s easy to get tangled in knots. If one follows a single credible path that makes good sense and sees signs of progress, there is little doubt of success. Of course each teacher will teach their view. The best teachers will recognize that there is no right view to the exclusion of others; rather the right view is what is right for each individual practitioner at any given point in their development.

I think it is relatively easy. It's simply a matter of recognizing that different approaches are more effective for different people. If there is an understanding that no concept or paradigm is perfect, it's easier not to get too attached to your team's playlist.

Some like to focus on the differences between paths and hopefully you’ll get some responses. I prefer to focus on the similarities because I can see how the paths converge and I find that far more supportive on my path. For me, the important thing is that the various wisdom traditions help people to connect with their fundamental, authentic selves. How that is defined may differ widely but I don’t get too wrapped up in words and concepts, at least I don’t find them as beneficial as getting my hands dirty and doing the work. Different individuals need different approaches and the important thing IMO is to be sensitive and open to what we each need. It most certainly does. 🙏🏼❤️🙏🏼

It means “compassion” - nying je