doc benway

I read the book several years ago. It's not very fresh in my mind. I recall it being a bit slow for my taste but I agree that I felt it afforded an interesting glimpse into China and the temples he visited.

Enlightenment, whatever it is, must be beyond the severe limitation of human thought and ideas which is composed of language and images and known experience. The enormous variety of energetic practices and meditation have a common thread of focusing attention on the physical organism and universe using senses and awareness other than thought. IMO, this is a valuable experience in that it allows us to step out of our life of thinking for a bit and to experience our selves and the world directly, rather than through the superficial images created by thought. We may think we understand enlightenment through traditions and buzz words and thought but this is like trying to drink the word water. Thought will never take us where we want to go because it is always limited to the known. The unknown must be experienced and approached in a different manner. This is why I don't think it matters what particular style or flavor of practice you adhere to, any of them will give an experience of the world and self in a new way and none will ever take you to the truth. That's something only you can find if you have the energy and commitment to really look.

Agreed Darin. Sword forms raise the bar a bit - - more challenging stances and postures - managing the weight of the sword (using a real sword is very valuable) without compromising basic principles - understanding the martial aspects of the movements and sword handling - bringing the awareness of the limbs and torso to the management of an inanimate object - and so on.... I'm no expert on history but there does seem to be an important place for the jian in the development of Tai Ji Quan, particular among the Daoists.

I think this is worthy of repeating. "It means knowing your own mind as it really is." Unfortunately, many of us mistake an image or belief of the mind for the mind itself. We think we know ourselves but are simply deluded. Understanding the mind through the use of intellect is like trying to swim in the word water. It takes serious commitment and an enormous amount of energy to know the mind but what is there better to do? Well said Kate. But only when one is aware...

That seems to make sense, Michael - Wu Wei - go with rather than against. This perspective may help with Jen_A_Kins' struggle as well. Another, more concrete, example of seeing without seeing is the quality of awareness/intention we bring to Daoist meditation practice. There is a quality of seeing but it is not vision...

UG makes no effort to teach but rather attempts to describe his experience and his level of function following a psychological/emotional/physical event he describes as his calamity. Like Jiddu Krishnamurti, he talks about the fact that no one and no method can ever lead to enlightenment. That misnomer, in his opinion, is something that may or may not occur spontaneously and has nothing to do with spirituality as we generally think about it. He is very humanistic. His description of life after the calamity has clear elements of a non-dual sensibility but is firmly rooted in simple physical existence with no meaningful spiritual level of existence. I find his relationship with JK ironic - he spent a substantial amount of time following and studying JK's teachings then claimed to have disregarded them completely and criticized JK firmly. Nevertheless, his writings and talks are very firmly rooted in JK's ideas. In fact, to me he sounds like a nihilistic J Krishnamurti. It seems to me that he may even have suffered from depression.

I don't think that anything you do will accelerate your body's natural healing mechanism. Well balanced diet, hydration, adequate rest, avoidance of aggravating activity, gentle exercise like qigong or taijiquan only when it's comfortable to do so. It will heal at it's own pace - wu wei...

SPOCK NOT SO COOL ?!?!?! Surely you jest! Or you're under the age of 40...

Most of the spiritual "authorities" or entertainers as Alan Watts would say, tend to discuss a reconciliation between their newfound perspective and a continued desire to live and lead a meaningful life. UG seemed to have been unable to maintain any love for life after his "calamity." I think it's a reflection of his conditioning and nature and perhaps his neurophysiology. It appears that our human characteristics and basic nature remains even after a profound change in perspective. As the classics say - after enlightenment... the laundry.

I couldn't agree more Bailey - that's where the "lesser" life forms have an advantage. They're (presumably) less distracted by the endless thought machine. Language is a double edged sword, IMO.

Interesting comments! Alfa - this is NOT an easy process. It's a long and arduous method but can yield beautiful results. It's not one to try and 'understand.' It is meant to be lived, not thought about. Good luck!

Very nice post Magda. Your problem is intelligence. I haven't pontificated in a while so here goes... Most people stumble blindly through the world, believing what they're told by authorities and gurus of one sort or another. All religions distort the truth - that is unavoidable because truth can never be captured in words or thoughts or doctrines. The core principles contain truth and all of the details piled on top by successive generations of believers eventually turn to bullshit. Osho said it well - 'true religion is an individual's personal search for truth, spirituality, God, whatever you want to label it; everything else is politics.' Truth can be experienced. To put it more simply, truth is experience. What else can it possibly be? Sure, anyone can make a gratuitous assertion about the nature of reality that can never be proven or disproven, that's what has gone on since the beginning. Every tradition has a long winded and detailed explanation of that which can never be understood or explained... yawn... Open your eyes and mind and heart and experience life for what it is. Don't mistake words and images for reality. Words and concepts (like chakrah and dan tian) are not reality, they are a useful tool for approximating and communicating about reality but nothing more than that. People take all kinds of liberties with words and ideas. It gives them a sense of security, makes them feel comfortable because you feel that you can control what you understand. Reality on the other hand is reality. It simply is. That is the energy every one talks about as if it is something mysterious and magical. It is! And at the same time, it's all around us and we ignore it (and look for something more exotic and magical) because it is us. You are the very energy you seek. Feeling Qi is nothing magical, it is just tuning your awareness to another "wavelength," if you will, of your existence. We are basically antennae, tuned to receive certain wavelengths (of light and sound and touch) and ignore the rest. Some practices (yoga, prayer, meditation) can perhaps heighten your awareness and different traditions approximate those experiences with different words. It's really not a big deal. I'm not saying that there is no value in practices. I do it. Practices take you to a door but ultimately you have to pass through alone and naked, without your words and concepts. All of that has to be abandoned to approach truth. No one and no practice can show you the truth. You have to find that in yourself, alone. Sorry for rambling, perhaps the fire in my belly hasn't gone completely out yet after all... Good luck in your search.

Where do I end and nature begin?

If I don't create dan tian, who does?

Well said Stig. What is the dan tian before one starts to cultivate? What is it if one never cultivates? Is it a concept we apply to a feeling we discover/create in order to participate in a specific paradigm? BTW, TGA, there are three dan tians - Upper - in the middle of your head Middle - in the area of your heart Lower - in the pelvis When people refer to dan tian without specifying upper, middle, or lower, they are generally referring to the lower dan tian.

Please accept my fondest wishes for you, your father, and the rest of your family.

Actually, it's my fault. This place has definitely gone downhill since I joined. I'm really sorry guys - it happens to every forum I join... PS There was a time when I really had a fire in my belly that I had to share with everybody. Now I don't really know that I have all that much to say most of the time but I still stop by, read the stuff that interests me, and occasionally add a post when I think I can help somebody or have something worthwhile to add. I still like the place and there a few people on the forum that I think are very special.

More than those who "believe", IMO... One of my favorite authors but I don't think I'd want his life. Ironically, despite a life of complete indulgence in and addiction to drugs, alcohol, and sex, he lived to the ripe old age of 83. Naked Lunch remains one of the funniest and most politically scathing novels of the 20th century, IMO.

Slightly off-topic - I used to love fly fishing. I would always release the fish and use artificial flies. Nevertheless, a few months after starting Daoist meditation practice I stopped fishing. I could no longer derive pleasure from the act of torturing fish. To this day I still have no desire to do it... I personally do not believe that there is anything specific that one must do or say in your position, Trixie. If you feel genuine remorse and love for your victim, allow that to guide your future actions and that is all that can be expected of you.

Me too! Here's how my ShiYe taught me. Put enough Wu Long tea in Yi Xing pot to cover bottom with one layer (more or less) Boil the water and let cool briefly. Pour into pot then immediately pour out and discard (rinse the leaves to clean and get rid of some caffeine). First round: Fill again and steep for ~ 45 seconds - pour into serving vessel Share with friends Second round: Repeat, steeping for ~ 60 seconds Third: Repeat, steeping for ~ 90 seconds Fourth: ~120 seconds Times will vary with type of tea, temp of water, size of pot, and so forth. Yum!

The best time to practice is when you have time to practice. I made the mistake of trying too hard to standardize my meditation routine to early morning. I got attached to the idea of having to do it early so when I couldn't do it early it caused stress and it really had a negative impact on my practice. When I let go of that expectation, I found I was practicing with more regularity and in a more relaxed fashion and now, magically, it's easier to find time and motivation to do it early in the mornings...

7h2uL8lk2lM&feature=related And 25 years later... yrrBtAahALU&feature=related

John McLaughlin! I've loved his music since I was a kid. In addition to being one of the best musicians alive (IMNSHO) he's got an extensive background in Eastern spirituality and is currently into Chan poetry. In case you can't tell, I've been into playing the guitar a bit lately... O127hEVA9G0&feature=related

IMO there is no need to try and attach words or concepts to it. The experience is/was beyond words and thoughts and ideology. The mind's job is to try and reduce reality to verbal packets for the purposes of communication and meeting our physiological needs. With such an experience, I see no advantage in doing so.

Some thoughts: As the mind quiets, it is natural for repressed ideas, experiences, emotions, and so forth to surface. Ignoring them and detatching from them simply represses them yet again and they will continue to recur and plague you. There are lots of tricks and methods for making them "go away" but they are still there - they will always be there. They are a part of who you are - hard wired into your nervous system. The longer they are repressed, the stronger they become. My approach has been to embrace and accept them. Stay with the feelings and thoughts. Look deeply into them to see what they arise from and who it is that is experiencing them. It's a major undertaking but only through deep and very serious exploration/observation of yourself and all of these fragmented and buried components of yourself can you expect to find peace. It is not really important to analyze these things as there is only so much that the brain can "understand" about feelings but it is important (IMO) to acknowledge, observe, and accept it all. Approach it with love and endless patience as if for a stray dog or a suffering child. Once you clearly recognize this movement under the surface of who you think you are, then you may find liberation and the freedom to act based on conscious choices rather than subconscious conditioning. If it becomes difficult to face yourself - seek out help. Hallucinations, be they auditory or visual, are also pretty common with deep meditation. Whether they are repressed thoughts, demons, immortals, ghosts, spirits, inorganic beings, dead ancestors, or yesterday's lunch really is irrelevant. My teacher has always emphasized the importance of remaining focused on the practice and not letting hallucinations interfere. They can be scary as hell - one of the reasons a teacher is important. As far as the physical pain, it may well be a physical manifestation of repressed anger and rage and other strong emotions that are socially unacceptable to express. If so, they should lessen once that fact is recognized and accepted at a deep level. On the other hand, if the pain persists it may be prudent to discuss your symptoms with a physician you trust to reassure yourself that it's nothing potentially more harmful. I hope that makes some sense and is of some value. I recognize that some of these things are contradictory and paradoxical. I also think it's critical to practice under the direct guidance of an experienced teacher. This stuff can be very tricky to handle without that support.