doc benway

I've found that my reactions to posts of others tells me more about myself than about them. It's a valuable barometer and learning aid. I respect Sean's wu wei approach to moderation here and find that it gives a genuinely Daoist flavor to our little corner of paradise. What value would there be to more moderation? The rare instances of truly objectionable behavior have been handled well in the relatively short time I've been around.

I like this part: "The complete tuition of $160,000 is due before the course begins (call for details)." The bolding is my emphasis. Wow - I can learn everything there is to know about Chinese martial arts, cultivation, and healing arts in 3 years...

Two other useful study methods are repetition and visualization

Sounds a bit Daoist, doesn't it? The Dao which can be named is not the true Dao... 35. To seek and abide in the Reality that is always attained, is the only Attainment. All other attainments (siddhis) are such as are acquired in dreams. Can they appear real to someone who has woken up from sleep? Can they that are established in the Reality and are free from maya, be deluded by them? Hmmmm... Another good one, I think. I need to spend some time with this one.

I've been and continue to go through similar feelings. As your meditation improves, your thoughts quiet and you will become much more aware of deeper feelings that have been repressed, ignored, dormant, and so forth. This is a normal process and ultimately very healthy. Unfortunately, it can lead to extreme stress, fear, anxiety, and,rarely, an exacerbation of mental illness in susceptible people. This is one of the reasons it is valuable to study meditation with a teacher. As long as you are able to simply be with those feelings, whatever they are like, without too much stress, just watch and learn. Meditation is getting to know yourself at a very deep level. If the stress, fear, or anxiety get overwhelming, get some guidance from someone with experience in meditation or someone with an interest in meditaiton and psychology. Good luck in your training. PS It's even more intense when practicing sitting....

Just beautiful posts - I can't thank all of you enough for your contributions. Much obliged!

Thanks Carson - I really like that interpretation. That makes sense and feels 'right.' So then what is it about surrendering that thought to God/source that makes it help or makes it work? Why is surrendering the thought to the source different than simply noticing the thought as it slips through the mind with all the rest or selecting the thought and taking some concrete action based on it? _/\_

Props to his training partner who took some nice spills on a hardwood floor in a small room. Nice applications on the videos. Bagua is full of great stuff. The number of martial applications is only limited by one's creativity and willingness to train.

Wu Wei

Yes, I'm in the USA. My teacher studied with one of Chen Pan Ling's senior students named Chen Jin Bao in Taiwan. He learned the 99 forms as well as Xingyi and Bagua from him. We have a Chen Pan Ling division in our annual tournament and a few practitioners show up every year from all over the East Coast. There are a few schools around that teach the form (North Carolina, New York, and two schools in Maryland - ours and one in Frederick,MD).

Very sorry to hear about the suffering Mat. Thanks for the post.

There are a great number of things that modern medical methods do very well and many doctors are intelligent, compassionate, and well meaning individuals. There are also a great number of things that modern medicine is not good for and too many doctors are greedy, narrow minded, and not sensible enough. Patients and doctors alike have unrealistic expectations of what medicines and surgery can and should accomplish. People lead extremely unhealthy lifestyles, in large part due to a toxic environment, and then expect doctors to put other toxins into their system or surgically alter them to make them healthier. It makes no sense whatsoever. Unfortunately this is the societal and cultural mindset prevalent in Western nations - it is not the sole responsibility of the doctors working within the society. Doctors are products of their conditioning (culture, education,...). We need to change their conditioning to expect them to change for the better. Doctors do not put fast food chains in hospital entrances - hospital boards and real estate developers do that. I'd like to think that the doctors that work there would not be happy about that. I respect and value the criticism leveled at doctors (I'm one) but please don't blame all of the problems of an enormously corrupt and dysfunctional health care system and society on the physicians trying their best (most of them) to do what they can within the fucked up system.

Anyone interested in the intention of meditation or the "real meditative state" would probably find it worthwhile to read Jiddu Krishnamurti. In particular, he wrote a book specifically on meditation called This Light in Oneself. Whether you agree with his views or not, you are bound to be stimulated by his non-approach to meditation. I am strongly biased because his non-method helped me immeasurably.

I will also say amen.

I agree with you. There was a time when I was angry and terribly frustrated at the pain and suffering in the world and I felt helpless to do anything about it. Eventually I realized that the best thing I could possibly do is make a difference in myself first.

If the meditator is improving, the world is improving, is it not? Albeit, a small part of the world, but the world nonetheless. On the other hand, who said meditation is necessarily noble? Most folks who meditate at a very serious level sequester themselves away from the world. The Daoists don't seem to make any concessions to nobility - cultivation is a selfish pursuit. Nevertheless, as each individual achieves peace with themselves and wakes up to their true Self, the world is a better place, IMO...

I started with Yang style long form then learned an older Yang short form of uncertain provenance and now I practice Chen Pan Ling's form as well. I really like Chen Pan Ling taiji - it's the form I practice the most. The form has many more explicit martial applications compared to Yang although all the same stuff is hidden in Yang. It really works on opening the kua and coordinating all movement with the waist. It does a great job of building strength in the legs. It also has some influences from Bagua and Xingyi. It is a hybrid form derived from Yang (Yang Ban Hua and Yang Chien Hua, pre- Yang Chen Fu ), Wu, and Chen styles. Chen Pan Ling's purpose in developing the form was to try and preserve important stylistic elements of Yang, Wu, and Chen forms in creating a single unified form that could be taught large scale. Unfortunately, the cultural revolution interfered with his plans... Some people attribute his form to Wang Shu Jin (there's politics everywhere) but most agree that he developed the form and Wang Shu Jin was his student. There's a very good book about his style that includes lots of very detailed photography and descriptions but I don't think it's possible to learn his form from book or video. It's got an enormous amount of subtelty of execution and I think it's best learned if you already have some experience in Taijiquan. His son, Chen Yun Ching, has a videotape out on the Taiji form. I don't think it's a very good video and wouldn't recommend trying to learn from it. Here's a link to the book which is an excellent resource. Here are videos on youtube that show the form as done by a student of Wang Shu Jin. It's a bit different from my teacher but close enough to get the flavor. In my opinion, the practitioner in the video leans and breaks posture too much, particularly in the kicks. Otherwise, it's a very nice performance. 5h5R1ltRaSs XUOLY7tsmjw&feature=related I agree that learning taiji from a teacher that is experienced in the martial aspects is ideal even for those not interested in martial applications. Many of the health benefits are dependent on proper execution of the form from a martial perspective.

How does self-knowledge differ from meditation?

Hi Carson, A very practical reason to meditate for some is to improve skill in the internal martial arts and healing methods. Daoist meditation techniques refine the Yi which dramatically improves progress in taiji, xingyi, qigong, and so forth. I think that the intention behind meditation for many of us is to know the truth, however we may interpret that word. It seems to me like you are finding answers that make sense to you. I think that is what counts. It's one thing to believe but another altogether to know. I could be sorely mistaken, but it seems to me that meditation helps one to know, making it unnecessary to believe. Keep up the good posts!

I'd suggest that you continue to practice the same style that you learned from a teacher. Supplementing direct teaching with video instruction is probably better than trying to learn an entirely new style with video alone... Does the Taoist Taiji group have any books or videos?

I just eat... I do often find it difficult to eat meat, however.

Lately I'm of the opinion that we are collectively immortal but not individually so. As far as the second question goes, I feel that we are already pure energy - equipped with apparatus that enables us to experience it as what we refer to as "physical", whatever that means - it's just a matter of perspective... Intersting thread Darin.

Nice thread Adj - I'm certainly guilty of both enthusiasm and ego but I'm working on it!

I trained in Wing Chun exclusively for ~ 8 years during the 80's and early 90's. Great system of training. I still try and keep my forms fresh but don't get much chance to do Chi Sao or drills.

I'm glad to see this getting looked at - I just hope I can keep up with the reading and practice!